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Wood Bows & Cohos on Haida Gwaii -

Updated: Jun 24, 2023

It is always a good day when I get to visit with Blayne Prowse. Blayne has become a good friend and we have plans to spend some time together this year at his home on the island of Haida Gwaii off of the BC coast. We'll be fly fishing for Coho Salmon and sea-run cutthroat, and I heard him mention deep-sea fishing for Tuna. I sure hope that can happen. I've never caught Tuna before.

In the first eight minutes of the episode I get to indulge my fascination with riding on ferries and listeners will get re-acquainted with Blayne and what he is all about over at Stumpstalker Archery. Then we get into the plans for my visit in September. The last half of the show is focused on getting started in primitive archery and sharpening broadheads for bowhunting success.

There is quite a bit of information in this episode if you've ever been curious about how to get started with primitive archery and bowhunting. Blayne is a treasure trove of information on bowhunting with selfbows and wood arrows!

A fun episode of fly fishing, archery, and getting your broadheads hunting sharp. Give Blayne a shout for your arrow and broadhead needs. His website is


Blayne Prowse with his Osage selfbow.

[00:00:00] John: Good. I miss your voice. It's been a long time since yeah, I know. Since we've sat around a campfire, so I'm

[00:00:06] Blayne: so been too long since I've had any community, so I'm really feeling the need to get out and stretch my legs and see some people again,

[00:00:14] John: talk about that a lot. When we were on Vancouver Island, you mentioned that to me a couple of times and it didn't go unnoticed. It's a thing for you, isn't it? I, is it a function of where you live or how you live or? You know, why do you crave this community from time to time? Yeah. You know, it's

[00:00:32] Blayne: funny cuz I, for a long time, I, before we moved up here, I was like, I didn't want anything to do with people. And then I realized it was just that I lived around too many people.

But I like being around. Certain people. I like being around certain people a lot, but I don't like being around people in general, you know? Yeah. I don't know, but people who I have interest in common with, I miss that a lot.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Emma: This is the Food Afield Podcast,

a show about wild food ingredients and how to collect them. And now broadcasting from the wilds of Alberta is your host, John David Schneider.

[00:01:20] John: We are here today with my good friend, Blayne Prowse. Blayne, tell folks where you live. I guess first of all, most people listening to the show will know where you live, but where are you right now?

[00:01:31] Blayne: I'm in my cabin in Haida Gwaii. Watching the rainfall outside. Got the wood stove going so it's warm in here.

Nice. Yeah, Hawas are about 60 kilometers off the coast of Bridge, Columbia. It's northwest bc like we're just below sort of South East Alaska, prince Wales Island. that kind of play kinda geography.

[00:01:50] John: It's a, it's an island or it's a part of the world. I guess maybe that doesn't get a lot of attention from the rest of Canada.

You know, you said Haida Gwaii [00:02:00] when we first met, what, however many years too, or even three years ago now. And so I had a rough idea of where Haida Gwaii was. It's an island off the coast of bc But then when I looked it up and looked on you know, a map. Google Maps, whatever it was. You are way up there.

Hey, like pretty far north. Oh

[00:02:18] Blayne: yeah. Yeah. It's like 18 hours in the ferry to get from the northern tip of Vancouver Island to get to Prince Rupert. And then we have another six to seven hour ferry ride from Prince Rupert to get across over

[00:02:31] John: here. Yeah, that's crazy. For those who maybe are just joining the show, the Food Field Podcast, Blaine.

And Chef Jade Berg and I, and Gareth, my son, hunted Black Bears last spring on Vancouver Island. And that was a bit of serendipity where Blaine heard us talking and just kind of said, Hey, I'm gonna be, or are you planned your trip around meeting us there didn't. [00:03:00] Like you guys had rough plans, but

[00:03:03] Blayne: we had rough plans.

It was like, hmm, well we should probably go down in the spring, see some family, pick up some building materials. And uh, then I heard you guys and I kind of just hit up Jade going. I had an idea whereabouts, when you were talking about it, I had a kind of an idea of where you guys were going, so I just hit him up.

Yeah. Cause you grew up like, oh yeah, are you guys going around this area? And he is like, well, not quite, but kind of. And anyway, he just instantly was like, you wanna come ? Like and then about two minutes later I get a text from you going, you come and bear hunting.

[00:03:36] John: Oh, .

[00:03:37] Blayne: So it was too funny. So I was like, yeah.

I said to my wife maybe we should book the ferry for the end of Mar or end of May, and then we'll stay down there and I can go on this trip with the guys and Yeah.

[00:03:49] John: You, you were, you were down there a long time. We stayed in touch after I left even. And you were. You would stuck around for a little while after.

After I had left. Yeah. And so yeah, was [00:04:00] for three weeks. I have this thing about traveling to destinations. You know, when I'm going on a trip, a fly fishing trip or a hunting trip or whatever, like part of the enjoyment for me is getting there. So I guess that's a good thing, right? It's you know, I just enjoy the adventure of driving someplace new or.

the ferries, especially turn my crank, because growing up here in Alberta, you know, driving your car onto a boat is just something that's, you know, really cool. Right. And other people Yeah. You know, get sick of it. Like you tell everybody about your, that ferry experience because you, yeah. Just tell everybody like, how do you get with your truck?

And you had a trailer I think too. Yeah. How do you get with your truck, your vehicle? You know, back home to the Campbell River area on Vancouver Island. Yeah. We

[00:04:46] Blayne: have to catch a ferry. To in Port Hardy, which is on the northern tip of Vancouver Island, and then it's a 18 to 22 hour boat ride from there to get to Prince Rupert.

And then you offload. And at that [00:05:00] time of the year, the ferry runs during the daytime. They run it kinda like as this cruise ship set up so that the tourists come and they can see the inside passage in the daytime. But for us, we're just commuting back and forth. It works way better if we leave kind of in the afternoon and.

Prince Rupert in the afternoon and we sleep on the boat cuz we've all seen it a bunch of times. So, you know, it's still beautiful, but at the same time, it's more convenient if you can sleep on the. .

[00:05:25] John: Yeah. So tell people about this ferry. Like what it, like, I can't imagine, what do you mean you sleep on the ferry?

Like you sleep on your truck, it's, what do you do?

[00:05:34] Blayne: No, it's got state rooms that you can rent. They have a little bathroom and one boat. The rooms have two beds and another boat, they, there's bunk beds and they're pretty small little state rooms. Yep. But on that long of a trip, if you're, you know, you gotta spend the night on the boat, it's nice to have a bed to sort of crash out.

[00:05:53] John: It reminds me, maybe the way you describe it, it reminds me of a train, like a state room

[00:05:58] Blayne: train. Yeah, it's, [00:06:00] it's probably very similar to that. Yeah. I've never been on a train to to exactly compare, but probably fairly similar. Yeah. The rooms are maybe eight feet wide by 12 feet long kind of deal with a little bathroom on one end with a shower and a toilet.

Yeah. That

[00:06:16] John: is so neat. So, so you guys just hang on the boat. Hang on. And it's basically, it's not quite a cruise ship, right? It's not fancy like a cruised ship I'm imagining, but still, no, it's PC Fer of night. It's fancy. They're nice boats. It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. They've a restaurant and Yeah,

[00:06:33] Blayne: it's totally different than the down south, like the Nanaimo Vancouver run the Oh yeah.

Way different boats than that. Yeah. In what way? Just bigger. They're a lot bigger. Yeah. And so I mean, they have state rooms, they have more decks. Take less vehicles though, because they. Just for what they are. They're not, they're not for just people commuting back and forth. Yeah.

[00:06:51] John: You can only get so big.

Hey, anyways. Yeah, I find that nobody else minds that interesting except for me, but whatever. It's my

[00:06:59] Blayne: show. Well, hopefully we'll get you on [00:07:00] one of those boats this in this, this fall and get you over here to do some coho fishing with us and

[00:07:04] John: Yeah, I know. Yeah. The things I have, Oh dude. So for the people listening, why do I have Blayne Prouse on the show?

Because Blayne and I, we still chat all the time and we become friends. And especially when you get to hang out with each other at a campsite, you know, chasing bears for a week. And so Blaine, you last fall or last, you know, late summer, you were, you know, bragging up what you were doing to me, and I was so jealous because you were like, You know, yeah.

I went down to the beach and caught coho or Yeah, I went and did this. And you were bow hunting blacktails and just all of this cool stuff you were telling me about all the things you're forging and, and things like that. So maybe just tell folks what what we have planned here, at least tentatively anyways.

I'm gonna make every effort to make this work, but what do you want me to.

[00:07:56] Blayne: I want you to come here about mid-September. Stay for [00:08:00] 10 days to two weeks or however long you got. We'll keep you here for a while, John, if you wanna stay longer, nice. There's always projects for me, . Yeah, exactly. Help us too.

hurt my teeth. . Yeah, I heard you're good at fencing. You're a farmer. So ,

[00:08:13] John: fencing, welding, concrete framing. Yeah. Yeah. . We'll get you a new house

[00:08:19] Blayne: built. Yeah. Andy wants a sauna, so that's the Mm. Go. That's the plan Anyway. Yeah, the coho will be running. Into the rivers at that time. So we have, I know of several good rivers that we can go and try.

I also have a friend who's got a nice boat and he's into going offshore and chasing tuna, so that might be something we could potentially do. No way. And we got linco in halibut too, fishing out there as well, so

[00:08:47] John: there's, yeah. That's awesome. Awesome. I love bottom fish. So

[00:08:51] Blayne: Yeah. So we may be able to turn that into like an overnight trip or something where we go out and fish and then we come back like, We stay sort on the west [00:09:00] coast, but we camp out overnight somewhere.

Mm-hmm. And then go back out and fish again. There's potential for doing hunting on that trip as well. Yeah, not unfortunately. Unfortunately. Yeah. But yeah, it would be for us cause Cool. Unfortunately we're not allowed to have out of province hunters here hunting deer. Just a rule that's just recently come out.

But anyway, you're more than, yeah, you can definitely tag along with us. Oh man,

[00:09:27] John: that would be so much fun just to record an episode of Blacktail Hunting. That's one of the things I, that's on my wishlist is to get a blacktail with a bow and um, I've thought about that for years and years. It's so that'd be pretty cool.

So the second best thing would be to hang out with you and, and help you try to get a blacktail. That'd be kind of neat. So, yes. Yeah, it would be sweet. And the fishing. So you're, you were describing at that time of year two no, maybe I'm wrong. The sea runs, they're not really happening at that time of year.


[00:09:59] Blayne: Oh yeah. We [00:10:00] get sea runs when we're fishing, like estuaries and, and Oh, the rivers? Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Like, like they're all the, pretty much all the cutthroat that are in the rivers, they're pretty much all sea runs straight. Like they'll go in and out of the rivers for, you know, right now there's not a lot of food in the river.

Yeah. So there's probably a lot of them kind of milling about in the estuaries. The pink fry will be migrating outta the river soon and it'll. I haven't seen it yet, but I imagine it's gonna be pretty epic. It'll be like, yeah. Cutthroat chasing salmon fry, like salmon chase herring.

[00:10:35] John: I've, I've heard of that.

And but I've never witnessed it and I've tried for two years now. To successfully catch a sea run cutthroat from the beach with my fly rod and I've just been unsuccessful. Yeah. So I'd be anxious to try that as well. And what's the deal though, with pink salmon? Because I hear conflicting things, so they only run every second year, is what I'm [00:11:00] led to believe.


[00:11:01] Blayne: generally, yeah, some systems will have pinks every year, really like I think the Campbell River. It has a run every year. I know another river, we used to fish the Eve River, but some years there's more numbers than other years. There's less fish, but they're a little bigger. Right. But general, like up here, the.

The even year there's lots. And then the odd year, they're very few. So it's really that drastic year. Okay. I believe the Fraser River's the same, where, I don't remember if it's the even year or the odd year, but one year there's tons, and then next year there's pretty much nothing.

[00:11:37] John: Yeah. That's such a cool sort of natural schedule.

I love that. But yeah. Yeah. So the pinks won't be, we won't be fishing for pinks up there. I should have come last year for.

[00:11:48] Blayne: Yeah, well, well you'll get up here once and you'll be like, Hey, I'm coming back next summer. So then you come up in September this year, and then next year come up in mid-August and we'll fly fish for pinks and [00:12:00] you'll just get tired of catching 'em like I did last summer.

[00:12:03] John: I don't know, because that seems like a, I don't believe you at all. 3,

[00:12:08] Blayne: 3, 4, 5 pound pink salmon on the fly in like every cast you're hooking one. It's pretty. Crazy dude. And with top water stuff too. I was using a Gurgler fly like quarter from Creek Talks

[00:12:21] John: about, yeah, like on that episode that I did with him.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:24] Blayne: So I got some info to him and then I went and talked to the local fly shop here and Anyway, put a pattern together and I didn't really know what I was doing, but I think just kind of a mar pink maroo tail. And then I took this quirky, or it's, you know, like closed cell phone foam, but it was preformed.

Yeah. And I put that on the hook. And it's got a flat front, just like a small mouth bass. Yeah, like a

[00:12:45] John: bass pattern. A bass popper. I think we used to call them. That's opera.

[00:12:48] Blayne: Yeah. Yeah. And anyway, I, I thought, oh, this isn't gonna work. Sure enough, I threw it out there. And as soon as it hit that water, I stripped it in.

I had fish chasing it, and I [00:13:00] hooked up like almost right away. And it was like, what ?

[00:13:03] John: Oh

[00:13:03] Blayne: dude. It kind of boggled my mind. So anyway, and then the rest of the time I was using my Garley poacher, which is a pink salmon fly that I made up, oh, I don't know, like 15, 20 years ago, . And that's the only pink fly I've used aside.

Gurgler and just you're a

[00:13:22] John: gurgler convert.

[00:13:24] Blayne: Yeah. Maybe. It's pretty exciting. No, top waters so neat. Like you think a rainbow or a, a cutthroat sip in a dry fly and a river is exciting. Well then you have the be wake of a salmon chasing a top water fly and then swirling and slurping it under .

[00:13:40] John: Oh yeah.

Swirled. Yeah. And a five-pound, a five-pound salmon from top water gear on a, on a little fly rod that would. That would be so much fun. Holy cow. Yeah.

[00:13:52] Blayne: Oh, and I failed to mention I was doing this all on a standup paddleboard as well. .

[00:13:56] John: That's right. I forgot about that. . That's hilarious. [00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Blayne: I just cooked a ridiculous, to a whole new

[00:14:02] John: level.

Yeah, no doubt, right? . That's awesome. Yeah, it's but so when I come up in September tell me about the coho fishing. What how are we going about doing? . Well, it'll be

[00:14:14] Blayne: predominantly river fishing. There may be some estuary fishing. I have a spot that I saw some last year. It's at the mouth of one of the rivers that I fish.

Yeah. And I never went out to kind of investigate to see if I can hook any. Yeah. But potentially that's something it will be just waders and just casting kind of like sink tip lines and streamers. Drifting the rivers like steelhead. Yeah. Streamers. Yeah. Kind of, yeah. Sort of thing. Some of the rivers are really slow.

Some of them are faster and bigger. They're still not very big rivers. Yeah, like you can easily throw a rock across them. They're Oh, okay. Yeah, so they're not big rivers. I got one spot that's tidal estuary, which is really [00:15:00] neat cuz the, you go down there and it's like a super rushing river and then all of a sudden it stops.

Yeah. Cause the tide stops and changes and then it rushes out the other way. Oh, sweet. And at certain tides, the fishing is really good and those cohos act like they're in the ocean still. They really fight, jump and do

[00:15:15] John: crazy things. And what kind of size fish are you talking about here on.

[00:15:19] Blayne: Oh, the coho are from eight to 15 pounds.

[00:15:23] John: oh dude! Are you kidding me?

Nope. . Wow. Yeah,

[00:15:27] Blayne: they're, they go a little bananas.

[00:15:29] John: Yeah, no doubt you're not. I'm not gonna be fishing my two-weight bamboo for any of these fish. Am I? No,

[00:15:35] Blayne: no. Bring an eight-weight for sure.

[00:15:37] John: Yeah, I've got one, Yeah, I've got an old Orvis eight-weight that I only used up in the Northwest Territories.

Well, that's not true. I actually Oh, yeah. Used it in Mexico, but yeah, we used to, there was this one little bay. It was so neat. It was up in the Stark River, so we'd have to run the rapids in the sorry, I said Stark River. I meant Stark Lake. We have used to have to run the rapids to [00:16:00] go up the Stark River.

and you know, there's this specific pattern that you have to follow to get up around all these rocks and rapids and things. And I think my average was about, you know, 50 50, whether I'd just absolutely thrash my prop on the rocks. But after, after a few years, I got used to it. But anyways, you go up into the.

and the shore just looks like, you know, like a northwest territories lake. It's just willows and, and, and pine and, and spruce, right? And then all of a sudden it was, it reminded me of like some Disney ride. There was this little opening that you can barely see and you. Go into this opening with your boat and you're like, you're pushing the willows away from you, you know, to, so you don't get knocked off the boat and you're just going through this channel and then all of a sudden it opens up into this lake and the lake is, I don't know, like.

Maybe like three feet deep across this entire, [00:17:00] across the entire thing. And it isn't a big lake. It's more like a pond. Right? Like a mill pond. Right. But inside this pond are 30 pound pike, and they're just laying there like logs. Right. , . You're like a lake fishing. Yeah. And like, like fishing. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like, that's so cool. You know? Oh, don't hit that log. And then all of a sudden the log moves. Right. And it's this ginormous pipe. So yeah, my, that, that was why I bought that eight weight. And then the other time I used it was down in Mexico, we were. In this little fishing village buser. And we hired a guide.

And well he wasn't even a guide, he was just a dude with a boat. And he's like, yeah, I'll take you fishing. And I'm like, okay, whatever. Like, who cares? We'll just go out in the boat and see what's up. But anyways, this guy stops and grabs some bait and I'm like, no, no, we don't need bait. We're just fly fishing.

So he kind of raised his eyebrows at us. And anyways, we drive out in quite a ways off land, like you can still see shore, but. He just stops [00:18:00] in the middle of the ocean. I'm like, what is going on? And I can't speak Spanish, and he can't. English. And so we're just kinda staring at each other and he just gives me the motion, like, just relax, dude.

I'm like, all right, . And all of a sudden about a, I don't know, half mile away, the water just looks like it's boiling, right? Oh, yeah. And seagulls are diving into the water and the water's white with foam fish boiling. We, so he fires up the motor and he's just going as fast as you can go. And he's yelling at me, cast, cast as we're racing up.

John is holding a 20lb fish in a boat
Jack Cravelle off the coast of Mexico

I'm like, dude, I can't cast. But anyways, I finally figured it out I'm standing on the bow of this little fishing boat and he's up on plane. Right? And I'm just, whatever, you know, the wind is like 25 miles an hour in my face. So you can't really cast. No. And Anyways, we figured it out. As he stopped, I would be in my back cast and I just flung, you know, the weight-forward [00:19:00] fly line ahead of me, right?

And so I'd get an okay little cast right into the middle of this foaming water. And like the millisecond, the fly hits the water, you're hooked up. And there was oh wow. Mahi Mahi and Jack Crave. And so, yeah, I think we ended up, I didn't catch any mahimahi but we caught I caught five craves that day.

Yeah. And you know, they were like 25 pounds, I wanna say 20 pounds. Oh, nice. Yeah. And yeah, it was like, It. It was just all day. Like it was just a half-hour fight every time. Right. So, whoa. Crazy. So anyways, those, that's my eight Wait fly rod stories. My only eight-weight fly rod stories. So we'll have to add to that.

That'll be cool. Well, hopefully

[00:19:46] Blayne: we can put some work in there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm kidding. But yeah. We'll, we'll go chat with Dan down at the local fly shop too. Dan and Don, the two fellas that are down at the fly. Yeah, they're, they're good to chat with, so, oh yeah. No, I'd love that. Get some info from [00:20:00] those guys too.

[00:20:00] John: And let's give 'em shout. What's their, what's their fly shop?

[00:20:03] Blayne: Tlell River Flying Tackle.

[00:20:05] John: Slow River. Tal River. Tal River. Ah,

[00:20:09] Blayne: tt l e L l

[00:20:12] John: t l e l l. Tll. Okay, cool. Yeah,

[00:20:15] Blayne: so excellent. And that the Tal River's another good coho river as well. Yeah. Excellent, excellent. And that's about a 15-minute drive from here.

Yeah. Well, I can't wait. Wait to meet him. Yeah, I got, there are four rivers that are within, yeah, like within half an hour of here that we can go fish easily and then. There's, there's some more on an, another island that I, that I've, that I've gone to a few times as well. And yeah, there's, there's lots of water to

[00:20:42] John: fish.

Yeah. And then lots of other stuff to do too. Like we were you were talking to me about crabbing and, and like your beach foraging. Estuary foraging sounded ridiculous.

[00:20:55] Blayne: Yeah. Well, the crabbing we do is kind of in May and June. Oh, in [00:21:00] July, when we do that, we wade for those. They come into the shallows to spawn.

So you go to low tide and just grab 'em off the . Just grab 'em. . Right. So that's pretty fun.

[00:21:10] John: Is will there be any crab though at that time of year in September? Or do


[00:21:14] Blayne: have to go out? Not on the beaches, but if we go out fishing, we can probably, I'm sure I can talk to my captain buddy and we can bring some traps with us.

And drop and drop. I'm sure we could soak some traps for a while and we can get some dungeons. There's, yeah, there's no shortage of them up here like that. But chantrell picking too, at that time of the, oh yeah, there'll be. Yeah, potentially lots of them. Yeah, last year we did really well. I don't know how many pounds we picked, but 30 pounds maybe.

Sweet. And we ate a pile and we preserved a pile and dried a pile and yeah. You're good

[00:21:45] John: at the preserving of things. I'm actually looking forward to , you know, learning a bit about that. I don't know a whole lot about preserving mushrooms, so. Yep. You know, smoking and drying and things like that I think are a thing, but Yeah.

You know yeah, definitely wanna learn [00:22:00] about that from you. And then we were planning on doing some canning when we're down there. Right. Yeah. We'll can

[00:22:05] Blayne: a bunch of

[00:22:05] John: salmon Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pressure

[00:22:09] Blayne: salmon's super easy to, can you just have to pressure can. And it pressure cans for a long time, like 110 minutes at 10 pounds.

Mm-hmm. . So it's, it's a process. By the time the, you know, you fill the jars, fill the canor, the canor gets hot, it goes through its whole process, and then the can cools down. It's, you know, several hours. So you gotta kind keep an eye on the thing. Yeah. But then you have all this food that you just put away and it's shelf stable.

And, you know, we caught a pile of pinks this year because there's no pinks next year. So we thought, well, they're. We might as well load up. We canned a ton and so now, you know, we'll probably be eating this canned salmon through next year.

[00:22:49] John: Oh man. I love canned fish. It's one of my favorite things. . Yeah.

I don't think it's super good. Don't get sick of that. So yeah, the real [00:23:00] reason other than getting me all geeked out about being up there with you in September is that I wanted to pick your brains a little bit about primitive archery, if you don't mind. Sure. So again, for those of you who aren't quite sure, Blaine PRUs is my guest today and he is the owner of Stump Stalker Archery.

And we talked a bit about that in a previous episode. So if you go back, you'll be able to, to find that episode. I forget what number it is offhand. And we talked all about your business. We talked about mainly the arrows that you manufacture and. You know, and then how to, how to find the right arrow.

We talked all about that, so that's a great episode to go back on. But maybe just refresh people's memories about, you know, your business and what you're doing there, if you don't mind.

[00:23:46] Blayne: Yeah. Well, I'm, I pretty much just make custom wood arrows sick of Spruce and Douglas fir. Yeah, that's primarily what I do.

Sort of my, well,

[00:23:55] John: you're doing Douglas fur now. Have you always done Douglas? On and

[00:23:58] Blayne: off I have,

[00:23:58] John: yeah. Oh, okay. Because I [00:24:00] think last time it was just primarily Sitka you

[00:24:03] Blayne: Yeah. It was just doing spruce and Yeah.

[00:24:05] John: And you're kinda neat cuz you're reclaiming this wood too, aren't you? Or, or, I can't remember that whole story actually.

[00:24:12] Blayne: Yeah. It's all salvaged wood, like pretty much all this, because spruce, anyways, I'm not, I believe the dug fur as well that Sherwood's using is all, is all reclaimed. Like they don't, or it's off private land, like they're not going out and just falling trees to make a shafts. Yeah, it's a tree on somebody's land that.

They don't want anymore. Or like it's a hazard or something, or it's a tree that's fallen down, you know, in the forest on public land

[00:24:39] John: or, yeah. They're there on the island with you as

[00:24:42] Blayne: well. Right. . That's true. Shaft. Yeah, true shaft. That's the, because spruce, yeah. Yeah. And all the true shaft stuff is all salvaged from, you know, they go into the clear cuts after the old growth has been logged.

Yeah. Which is still happening. And chunks that are left over, or they'll have a, you know, a windfall tree [00:25:00] somewhere that they can go, they'll get a salvage permit and go out and, and get that. There's multiple ways, but yeah, they're not going out and actually cutting a live tree just to make aero shops.

[00:25:08] John: It's, yeah. Second. Well, that secondary. That'd be kind of neat to go visit that operation too, if we could. While I'm there, I'd love to see that.

[00:25:16] Blayne: Oh, I'm sure Wayne would talk to you. He likes to chat, so Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. And he lives, he lives right next door. The Shaf Mills right next door, so, oh, is it

[00:25:22] John: really?

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. . Yeah. So the other reason that I wanted to talk to you today, Blaine, was that I'm getting a lot of questions about. You know how to get started in primitive archery. I still get those questions and I think, you know, when I do a quick search on, on like YouTube or whatever, there's, there's a decent amount of information, but.

I mean, I think there's a lot of stuff that's covered, but then again, not, not a whole lot as far as podcasts go anyways that I know of. But maybe just give folks, like, so if I come to you and I go, I want to [00:26:00] get started in primitive archery. I mean, first of all, what does that mean to you and how would you handle that question?


[00:26:09] Blayne: primitive archery to me is, Essentially you're making your archery kit out of natural materials. Yeah. Now I use modern adhesives. I use. Modern bow strings. Sometimes I use modern finishes, sometimes I use like a tongue oil or something like that to finish my shafts. But mainly you're making your bow out of a piece of wood, you know, like a self bow.

And your arrows are wooden arrows with a self knock generally rather than a plastic knock. I don't, it's so, you know, you could be as, as primitive as like Ryan Gill. Hunt primitive, or he is making sinew strings and everything is natural. Or you can be where I'm at more in the, you know, I'll u I'll build a sailboat and I'll make arrows [00:27:00] out of natural shoots like we talked about, unbank of island.

But not, I don't always shoot those and I'll shoot mild shafts as well. Mm-hmm. . So it, it depends on your sort of level. I, I have some stone points. I'm not a flint napper though. They came from a friend. You know, generally I use steel points because I find them, they're just what I know. And more reliable.

Yeah. Yeah. Potentially more reliable. And there's nothing against stone and I think it would be cool to, to hunt with stone points, but. I just haven't yet.

[00:27:29] John: It's so, you know, it's sort of a, it's fine thing. Have you napped before ever? Tiny bit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got into it hop a little bit like 20 years ago.

I used to do quite a bit of it actually. And it's it's, what's the word? It's incredibly frustrating. It's, I wouldn't say it's addictive because maybe for some people it is obviously, but for me it was, it. Really cool when you finished a point. Yep. But you just didn't finish many points, , right? Yeah.

They, they break like, yes. You know, you can be [00:28:00] seven eights of the way through a, a, you know, a one hour process or a two or three hour process, depending on the head, and then all of a sudden it snaps in half on you and you're like, damn it. Yeah. . Yeah, I could see that. You know what's funny? I got another funny story.

We used to hunt mule deer down, way down in southern Alberta. Jeff Lander and I and there was this one spot we found. It was out in the Sandhills, it was high above, up on the plane. It was high above the, I believe it was the South Saskatchewan River. The Red Deer and the South Saskatchewan are both there, but I think this one was off the South Saskatchewan.

Really sort of nondescript sort of place. It didn't have any obvious terrain to it. It was just Sandhills sort of hilly and scrub brush wolf, willow scrub brush everywhere. And then all of a sudden you just start seeing these, these napped heads everywhere in various stages of, of brokenness, right?

And, and shards everywhere, like shards of volcanic glass, everywhere. [00:29:00] and it was pretty cool because it became obvious. There was just a large amount of them, like they were just laying all over the ground. Right. And this was a place, so if you go to the edge at, which was maybe I'm going off a distant memory now.

Maybe a mile away was the edge of the, of the river bank, I guess we call it, or. The valley and you look down, you would see the tepee circles, the, the rings of rock that would hold down the lodges. Right. Oh wow. Super cool. Yeah, so it was a, a like a traditional meeting place and that's all I know about it, so I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on this, but it was a place where the indigenous people would gather.

And I don't know if at what time of year, I don't know any of those details, but it was clear, it was a big sort of area. and then up where we were, where all these napped heads were, I guess was where the dudes would go. And Flint nap. Rocks. And I, you know, it was just [00:30:00] so much, and I get that this is over a, a long period of time that they must have been doing this, but I can just picture, you know, a group of dudes, you know, that's where they spend the day to get away from the girls or the kids and you know, just go and flint nap heads and.

And it was just so funny cuz I'd find a head every now and then that would be almost perfectly done, but broken in half. Right? And because of where it was laying , you just, it was so funny cuz you knew exactly what had happened, right? So he was napping, they're all talking napping. And then this one guy would go, damn it.

And everybody'd be laughing at him and Yeah, I can just, yeah, he'd

[00:30:39] Blayne: throw it down in frustration. Yeah. Yeah. Have another slab get back to

[00:30:43] John: it. Yeah. All his buddies be laughing at him and joking with him. I'm sure. So, yeah, it was pretty cool. But , that's awesome. So. How, you know, I was thinking about how to answer this and I've, I've answered plenty of these questions before, but I'm curious in what your sort of [00:31:00] opinion is on this.

And then the other thing I don't only forget, the, another real reason that I wanted you on here was to talk about sharpening these steel broadheads, because that's a service that you provide as well. But what. Somebody that's just getting started, let's say, let's not call it even primitive archery, let's just call it traditional archery.

What are you recommending they do? Like it's kind of a big step to go, well just build your own bow. Because it took me years to figure out how to do that. It's not a simple process, right? So what's a good way for somebody to get started with, you know, primitive slash traditional arch?

[00:31:39] Blayne: I think the number one thing you can do is either A, find a mentor, you know, get somebody that you know, or, or somebody you know, knows somebody.

There's the community's growing, so the chances of, you know, like having two degrees of separation from somebody who knows something about it. [00:32:00] is pretty high. But also go to an archery club and just find somebody and, and you know, show up on a Saturday and find somebody who's shooting a recur or a longbow and just say, Hey, can you tell me about this?

I'm interested in it. I don't know where I can, who I can talk to or, you

[00:32:18] John: know. Yeah. But let's say you're, that. , what are you telling them? You know, somebody comes up to you where you're shooting at a range somewhere and you, you don't shoot at a range cuz your name is stump Stalker on your, that your handle.

Yeah. There's

[00:32:30] Blayne: no ranges around me either. , ,

[00:32:33] John: you're out. Literally shooting at, shooting at old gross stumps. But anyways, like, yeah. What do you tell this person? Like what advice do you give them? You.

[00:32:42] Blayne: Well, I would probably say Here, try my bow arrows, take a couple shots. But yeah, you know, like with me, I have a few bows around that are lighter weight.

Mm-hmm. I have, there you go. These bows around. Yeah. So, you know, I'm, I have some friends who are curious about it. It's like, well, [00:33:00] here, go shoot this. You know, let's go out. Here's some arrows. Here's a. , go take a few shots and yeah, that's pretty much where you start. But if you're a person who doesn't have a bow, doesn't have any arrows, doesn't know anything you know, to look around on, on used sites for equipment, you might find a bow there or start with like the Sam Sage type.

Basic recurve, that's a hundred to $200.

[00:33:27] John: Yeah, I love that advice. I was hoping you were gonna say that. You

[00:33:31] Blayne: know, just, yeah. Yeah. Just get started with something simple, cuz those bows are, they're gonna get you going and they're actually well built and you can do a lot with them. You could hunt with them.

I mean, you could buy a samage and that could be your only bow for the rest of your life, really? Mm-hmm. like they're won't be well built bows, . It won't be, but it could be . Yeah. Yeah. So that, there's that.

[00:33:54] John: I love that advice. Yeah. Yeah. So as far as arrows go, and then just fancy [00:34:00] Yeah, go

[00:34:00] Blayne: ahead. With your arrows.

Yeah, yeah. Like you can you know, obviously I encourage people to shoot wood arrows cuz I think they're fantastic. But if you want carbon arrows, well, you know, you go to, well, wherever you bought the Sam age from either a box store or a smaller archery shop, they're gonna be able to hook you up with some arrows, just basic carbons.

Or talk to me about wood arrows then. or anybody else building arrows and you know, they can hook you up and Yeah. Get you going. Yeah. So it. .

[00:34:33] John: I was gonna say that it used to be that you could get arrows cheap, right? You could find, you know, cheap wood arrows or you could find cheap aluminum arrows and whatnot.

But that's not really the case anymore. They're, they're just expensive. Arrows are expensive cuz they're, I guess, you know, they're hard to make and your case, you know, takes a lot of effort to put arrows together. Right. I would say that getting a. the arrows is probably the hardest part, right? [00:35:00] Because I know that I've wasted a lot of money on a lot of different arrows that don't fly well outta my bow.

And then I finally bought that batch of test arrows from you actually. Yeah. I, I think that's a, a good. Way to go. But having said that, the arrows that I bought from you, the last batch of arrows that I bought, the different questions you asked me about the bow and how long my draw length is and what kind of bow it is.

And I think you asked me how do I shoot, like, you know, three under and, and things like that. Like you were able to and what weight of head. , am I shooting? Things like that. You, those arrows fly really nice out of my recurve, outta my old bear Recurve. So you nailed it out of the shoot. Yep. But perfect think that can be the biggest problem though, you know, is like you get a bow and if your arrows aren't flying right.

You're just not gonna be very accurate. Right. And I think that might be pretty frustrating for people. So I would say, I would say don't spend a lot of money on a bow and do [00:36:00] spend some money on the arrows, cuz that's the most important thing, I think. But I don't know what you think. Yeah,

[00:36:06] Blayne: no, I, I agree.

It's kind of like, don't spend a lot of money on a fly reel. Spend it on the fly line or the fly rod. Yeah, yeah. Like the air. Yeah. The bow does the work. You know, if the arrows are not spine correctly, then they're not gonna like, they'll fly, but, and if you're a novice, you won't know the difference. But you won't be able to, you just probably won't have the accuracy you're looking for, which could be frustrating.

[00:36:32] John: What Blaine's talking about with spine is just how much they flex as the boasting is released. And they flex quite a bit to get, it's called the archers paradox. So the the, as you release the string, the force of the string against the back of the arrow is trying to overcome. Inertia. Is that the right term?

I don't know. So the weight of still, yeah, the weight of the head wants to stay still. The back of the arrow is pushing it forward so it [00:37:00] bends in the middle, right, is the gist of it. And the right amount of bend is what you're looking for. And too much or too little of that spine will cause your arrows to fishtail down range.

And if they're fishtailing down range. Or Corpusing up and down is another symptom of bad arrow flight, then yeah, your groupings are just gonna be a lot wider because obviously they're going to be flailing about as they go down range. It's gonna take a long time for that fletching to work and get your arrow straight.

So, If you got, and you can see it, I can see it all the time. Maybe somebody new to this sport wouldn't be able to see it. But what I'm shooting, I can sort of see outta my peripheral vision, the how the arrow is flying, and I can tell if it's kicking one way or the other. So and those arrows, I can see that's

[00:37:49] Blayne: essentially what I do.

Yeah, exactly right. My, my whole tuning is just, I watch it fly. If it flies Exactly, you can. It, it, it looks faster when it flies nicely. [00:38:00] It's not fishtailing around like I've had somewhere, I, I've watched them fly and I think, man, that arrow looks lazy in the air. Like it's just not flying as cleanly as it could.

Yeah. And it's probably just cuz it's flopping around like too much.

[00:38:13] John: So I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. So it is really crucial. .

[00:38:19] Blayne: Yeah. And a center shot. Recurve, say like your ceramic ages, they take a lot of variety of spine because it's center shot. You can run a and most people run too soft of a shaft, to be honest.

Uhhuh . Yeah. You can run a way stiffer shaft with those, cuz they don't have to flex as much because there's no riser to go around. Yeah. They're just shooting straight out. Pretty much like a compound does. Yeah. But a self bow where you're shooting it off the knuckle. Off a small shelf that's gotta get around that riser.

You need a lot softer of an arrow generally to be able to accomplish that same thing. Yeah.

[00:38:52] John: To flex more so that it actually clears the bow. Because if you look down the center of the string, your arrow will be [00:39:00] like, you'll see the arrow pointing way off to the left if you're, if you're right-handed shot.

That's yeah. So, yeah. So. But hey, so let's get, so we talked about arrows and, and whatnot. Let's talk about sharpening broadheads, because I know that is something that I generally struggle with. I can sharpen a knife decently, you know, where I can shave the hair on my arm. I can sharpen a tube blade Broadhead pretty good, but I just, you.

Like, I don't, I just don't even enjoy it, to be honest with you. And it's frustrating with, I get all anxious when I, when I'm working at sharpening a broadhead and sharpening and sharpening and it just won't get that hair popping sharp. Help me out with that. How, what's the solution to getting my broadheads like super sharp?


[00:39:52] Blayne: start with consistent angle is number one. And something I've found out recently, which I'm, I struggled [00:40:00] sharpening too forever, and it's been something that, that's why I'm offering it for people, cuz I know it's difficult. It's one of those things that I think every bow hunter should know how to do.

but it's, yeah, it's a daunting task if you don't know what to do. So I'm still getting better at it all the time. I'm by no means a pro, but I can get a decent edge on a Broadhead

[00:40:24] John: I use. So what kind of equipment do we need? So

[00:40:28] Blayne: there's, there's a few different ways. What I do is I have a jig SE system. I started it with a Lansky setup, which basically you clamp your broadhead in.

in these jaws and it's got these graduated holes essentially, so you can, it gives you like 17, 20, 25, and 30 degree angles to sharpen and then stones that you attach to these rods to keep it at that angle. That's a, I think a worthwhile investment for the hobbyists because it's not, they're like [00:41:00] about a hundred bucks Canadian and they do a really good job.

You should get 'em sharp. I use a, the jig I have now is made by KME Sharpeners. It's essentially the same idea as the Lansky. It's just a little. a little higher end. It's got some more features, like you can infinitely adjust to the, the sharpening angle between 17 and 30. So you could do like 21 degrees or 22 degrees, or you know, anywhere in there that you may need to.

The stones are a bit bigger, so they cut a bit faster. So I use that. I have another one called a Cammy Broadhead sharpening jig, which is it's kind of like this clamp on a roller that you can adjust the angle as well. And that's for using on a wet stone or a diamond stone or something. And that works okay.

I find it works better on a, a flat, sort of like a straight bladed broadhead, like a grizzly versus ccan vex one. They're a little trickier to use because you gotta. Yeah, you [00:42:00] gotta kind of roll it as you go to, to get all the way around it. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people just sharpen with a file as well.

[00:42:06] John: That's what I've always

[00:42:07] Blayne: saw. A yeah. Yeah. You can get a really good edge with just a file and that's something I'm, I'm working at right now. I finally struggled sharpening the Wiki broadheads forever, and until recently I learned about using a file and I saw a couple videos on how to do that. Mm-hmm. and that totally changed.

my whole ability

[00:42:29] John: with that. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The secret with that is just the amount of pressure you apply. For years, you know, I'd be struggling sharpening broadheads, which is what gave me this anxiety, and I would never get sharp. And I was, you know, I'd think I was maintaining a good angle, consistency and whatnot, but I was applying too much pressure.

and you just, you'll never get a broad head sharp if you're, if you're pressing down hard on it. So, I don't know. Right. It took me a while to figure that one out, but, but still, I don't get 'em, like, I still don't get 'em as sharp as I want them even [00:43:00] after all these years, you know? Yeah. So, What about the, like, I shoot the three blade broadhead.

What, what broadheads are you shooting

[00:43:07] Blayne: now? I have every kind of broadhead you can imagine, essentially. So, I mean, whatever. I, I think I got some with Zuki on 'em. I got some with Eclipse on them. . Yeah, I have some woods. You're shooting two blades? Blades? Yeah. Generally two blades, but I have some three blades as well.

[00:43:23] John: I shoot the the woodsman's from yep. Three Rivers Archery.

[00:43:28] Blayne: Yep. Yeah. And those, those are good heads too. I've had a hard time getting those sharp at times. At times I've gotten them really sharp.

[00:43:35] John: Well, I don't know, you know the trick, I don't know the, sorry. Go.

[00:43:40] Blayne: I find the trick to that is using a f I found the file is probably the best way to kind of get at a, the grind flat, you know, like get it consistent, get a bur rolled over on both.

Blades, you know, both edges at the same time. And then flip it, do the same, flip it, do the same. Yeah. And then I go at them with a diamond stone just back and [00:44:00] forth on the flat.

[00:44:01] John: Yeah. That's what I've

[00:44:02] Blayne: been doing. Yeah. Yeah. And that seems to work. And then finishing it with dropping it on some leather.

[00:44:08] John: Well, that's what I do. But how long does it take you to sharpen, you know, like those woodsman's for instance, like those three blades? How mu how long would it take you to sharpen one of them to the point where you're satisfied with them? I don't

[00:44:22] Blayne: know, 10, 15 minutes? I'm not sure. I've never timed myself and I was thinking about that going, I'm sharpening these for people.

I should time myself just so I know how long it takes me. Yeah. Cause I was just sharpening some, a standard. . I was doing something yesterday and some this morning. Yeah, I was thinking just as I'm using my jig, how fast, like how long does it take me to change the stones out? Cuz I go through four different stones plus a drop, so it takes me.

You know, I'm going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth doing both sides, and then I gotta flip it and do the the other side as well, so, oh, it takes a

[00:44:54] John: bit of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't know what it is with me. Like, [00:45:00] I mean, those, those woodsman's broadheads, they should be easier to sharpen because.

You know, there's only one angle that you can put on them, right? Because you're just, at least the way I'm doing it is just resting them flat. Yeah. On the diamond stone, and I have used files on them as well. I like, so o over time the angle is what it is. So now I just put them on the diamond stone to sort of touch them up.

And I have started dropping. I would imagine that's crucial. I'm just trying to think. Yeah, for the most part, I, I have a, I do have a strap, a leather strap on a wooden block that I use. So but you know, they're still not sharp as I want, so I don't know if I just need to spend more time. What you, what is your pressure, like when you are pressing down on the broadhead, on the, on the diamond stone, for instance?

What kind of pressure are you putting?

[00:45:51] Blayne: Well, I start out really family's just getting home, John, so let's pause for just a sec here. Sure. They went out for a bike ride in the pouring rain. So,

[00:45:59] John: , they need to warm up. They [00:46:00] came home.

[00:46:01] Blayne: I don't know if this, can you hear the rain falling on the roof out here?

[00:46:05] John: Well, if I can, that would be a good thing.

[00:46:07] Blayne: Okay, that's fine. Because I'm gonna have to be outside cuz I can't be in the house. Come. You get to meet our crazy dogs

[00:46:14] John: when you get up here too. Yeah. Nice. You were just picking them up when we met. Like when we were in Vancouver Island, you would just pick them up.

Zero. Almost a year old now.

[00:46:23] Blayne: That's hilarious. Okay, I'm outside, so, all right. You've been, where

[00:46:27] John: were we? Pressure, yeah. What kind of pressure are you putting down on those Diamond Suns?

[00:46:32] Blayne: So I start out. Like, I'll do 10 strokes. 10 strokes, 10 strokes. So on all three sides. Yeah. You know, 10 on each side. And then when I get to the first side, then I'll do, usually do six, and I lighten up the pressure.

So I do six all around, and then I do four, and I lighten up the pressure even more. Yeah. Then I do two, and then I do one, and I do the one a couple of times, but super light. [00:47:00] Oh, there you go. Yeah. So that I learned that from somebody on YouTube years ago of how to do,

[00:47:06] John: how to, I, I learned sharp from being a really crappy broadhead sharpener for about 15 years.

That's how I learned. So, ? Yeah. .

[00:47:15] Blayne: Yeah. But yeah, the key is yeah, just patience and maintaining a consistent angle. Rolling a bevel like for a two blade head, that's what you're chasing is you're chasing that bevel. Yeah. Or not the bevel, sorry. The burr Burr. You wanna roll that burr over? You should feel that on the opposite side.

So you're kind of rolling the metal away from the edge that you're sharpening. Well, are

[00:47:38] John: you pushing or pulling that, like the three blade, for instance, are you pushing or pulling across the diamond

[00:47:44] Blayne: stone? I go back and. .

[00:47:47] John: Oh, interesting. Okay. Actually,

[00:47:49] Blayne: do I go? Yeah, I think I go back and forth and then when I, then I kind of, I go back and forth with the first bit, like that first 10 sort of, cuz I wanna be more aggressive.

Yeah. Just [00:48:00] when I step the bevel. Yeah. And when I lighten up, then I'll, I think I stroke from Ferrell to tip. So back to front, I guess. Yeah. Backwards. Yeah.

[00:48:09] John: Yeah, you're, you're pulling the broad head back towards you if it's basically

[00:48:12] Blayne: pulling it backwards. Yeah, yeah. The opposite way it flies through the air.

[00:48:15] John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of what I do too. So, I don't know, man. Maybe I just got too much pressure on them. I mean, they're not dull, but, you know, I've seen videos of I think you showed me a video where you're cutting something. I, I can't remember now, but you get 'em really sharp, so I dunno.

That's my goal.

[00:48:34] Blayne: Some of the broadheads too. Like some of the steels are maybe not as good as others, so they're not as easy to get sharp, you know, like, oh, really? Do you struggle with different, yeah, well, I've just heard that from people over the years that, you know, these used to be better, they were ground better, or the steel's not the same, you know?

I mean, it's just like everything to, yeah, things get expensive to keep [00:49:00] price. Down. They, you know, yeah. They use maybe not the same materials they used to. And so, yeah.

[00:49:08] John: How do I get my Broadhead starter from

[00:49:09] Blayne: you? Well, I just, yeah, just get in touch with me. Email me or through my website or hit me up on Instagram at Okay.

What is, what is all of that for everybody out there? My website's some, so you can go there and there's a contact me spot. Yep. Most people get me on Instagram. Yeah.

[00:49:29] John: And that's just at Stump Stalker.

[00:49:31] Blayne: Yeah. And so when people order custom arrows, I ask if they want broadheads and if they do, I ask if they want 'em sharpened.

And a lot of people do. So it's yeah, it's just a little extra something for me to do for them. But I'll also sell just sharpened broadheads that people are interested as well. So just, yeah, hit me up and Nice. We can.

[00:49:53] John: Yes, which is, I think the most valuable thing with you is that you're willing to get it done right.

And so your ability [00:50:00] to chat with somebody and ask all the questions that you need to ask ends up with a much better product in that, in that customer's hand. So I really appreciate that. So yeah, I highly recommend that people talk to you when they talk about arrows. And again, just to reiterate, I think getting an arrow that's good is more important than almost anything.

[00:50:20] Blayne: So, yeah. Mm-hmm. , I, I wanted to touch on something too that I forgot about when you were talking about getting started in primitive archery. This is, I started by building my own bow the first time, cuz I didn't know where to turn. Yeah. So the first long bow that I had, I built, but there's a lot of people offering workshops all over the place.

So if you're interested in primitive archery, that's a good place to go. If you can find somebody doing a workshop. You know, you'll build a bow. You'll have this cbo, and then you'll meet some people. You'll meet the Boyer who's teaching you the course. It's a really good place to start.

[00:50:59] John: [00:51:00] Yeah, that is a good idea.

Just somebody that's offering a bow building workshop, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then the details will be there. I don't know where you'd find that. I haven't seen any around here, but then again, I haven't really been looking. So, I mean, Facebook groups should probably be a good place to start to look for stuff like that.

[00:51:18] Blayne: Yeah. And, and and Instagram too. Like there's lots of Yeah. There's also really talented self bow builders out there and yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. It might be hard to search it out at first, but you'll find it. Yeah.

[00:51:30] John: That's great advice. I love that advice. If you wanted to go that, that build your own bow route, that's perfect advice.

[00:51:38] Blayne: Yeah. Because you know how it is to try doing something like that on your own for the first time. It's even for the 10th or 12th time, it's.

[00:51:47] John: Well, when I first started doing it, there was no internet, so, you know, you just kind of had to, I read a lot of books. I, I don't know what else I did, but yeah, I mainly books and you know, [00:52:00] trying to read about something and then trying to physically do it are two different things.

So it is, the advantage that people have nowadays is they can go on YouTube or, or do these workshops for. And just get absolute hands on or, or visual cues on what you're looking for. And I think that would, that's a huge thing. So, yeah.

[00:52:17] Blayne: Yeah. No, it makes a big difference. And All right, bud. Yeah. Get you started right away.

[00:52:22] John: Somehow we've eaten up an hour of your time, which I appreciate greatly so. Thank you very much for

[00:52:28] Blayne: spending it with me. I'll chat with you all day, John. It doesn't matter to me. .

[00:52:31] John: Yeah, me too, man.

[00:52:32] Blayne: You know what though? When we're actually in person, you'll have to bring some flour down from, from your farm and I'll get Andy to make up some sourdough and then you and I can sit around the fire, eat peanut butter and jam.

Oh dude, after day's fishing, ,

[00:52:44] John: canned fish and peanut butter and jam. .

[00:52:49] Blayne: You had me at you. Good?

[00:52:52] John: You had me at sourdough for sure. . All right. Well say, say hi to everybody there for me. And Yeah, really [00:53:00] looking forward now to mid-September and making my way on the ferry across to Haida Gwaii and spending some time with you buddy.

[00:53:07] Blayne: Can't wait. Sounds good, John. Take care. Okay, bud.

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