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Traditional Bowhunter Magazine Editor - David Tetzlaff

Updated: Apr 3, 2023


Food Afield Podcast Episode 67 and Transcript

I am sorry that these transcripts are full of so many errors. The ai is getting better, but it's still pretty bad. When the transcripts are this long, I simply do not have the time to go through them completely. It would take many hours per week. So, for now, you'll just have to enjoy the comedy of ai generated transcripts!

John: Those were the days, weren't they? When you'd go to the local archery store and you'd rent the VHS tapes of Hunts. You know,

David: are you interested? It's like, of course, I am. You know, just to just be asked to, to get my own column in a national magazine. Heck yeah, I was all over it. Bottom of every cover. It's that, um, heritage, community Lifestyle, cuz that's what the trad Life is.

Emma: This is the Food Afield Podcast, a show about wild food ingredients and how to collect them. And now broadcasting from the wilds of Alberta is your host, John David Schneider.


John: to see. We've talked a few times now over the last year or so. I'm here with David Tetzlaff and David, and you are the co-editor of the traditional Bow Hunter Magazine and you've got a really interesting story I'm so happy to have you here on the podcast with me today.

David is dressed in full camoflauge and is stalking through the bush in central Florida. He is carrying his brightly colored arrows and a recurve bow.
TBM Editor, David Tetzlaff

David: Thanks for having me on, John. It's, it'll be a pleasure. I'm looking forward to it.

John: You and I first started speaking, as I said earlier, about a year ago, I would say, right? Maybe a little bit more because. How did that happen? I think I floated, oh, I shot that big whitetail buck of mine with the recurve.

David: Yes, you did. That was a phenomenal deer.

And that was one of my first, what I'll call test edits, practice edits. Um, before I officially took over, I had a, there was a transition period where Don was training me to do everything that he does with the magazine. TJ Conna, our founder publisher, TJ Conrads, just, you know, let don mentor me through it, through the editing portion of the job.

And then the technical things came from Robin Conrads and TJ as far as the platforms we use and so forth. But Don sent me some pieces to look over, how would I go about tackling an edit, and sending it back to him? He'd go, yeah, you got it. Or I would change that. So that's kind of all started, but that's how I first saw your piece long before it came out.

John: And that was, uh, the Don we're talking about is E. Donnall Thomas, Jr. And, uh,

David: yes. Sorry, I didn't clarify

John: that. Yeah, yeah. Most people, most people in traditional bow hunting would've known clearly who you were talking about. Um, Don and I go back, uh, yeah, several decades. Uh, he came up hunting with a mutual friend of ours, Jeff Lander, uh, in the bow zone.

Um, I remember that article. Yeah. He actually stayed at my house, uh, a couple of years in a row and just hunted different properties that we had access to around the Bozone there. That was after my outfitting days. So, It was always fun. The kids call him Uncle Dawn. They still remember his visits cuz he would always take us out for sushi when he was in town.

That was his big deal. And the kids to this day, enjoy sushi. So yeah. Now tell me about it, dude, I've just been reading up on you and you have such an interesting story. I mean, obviously, I have you on the web or on the podcast here today cuz I want to chat with you about your traditional bow-hunting career and the magazine to an extent as well.

Tell me a little bit about your career trajectory, because you've done some interesting things. It looks like right outta high school, you got involved with a zoo.

David: Um, actually when I was, I was born into the animal business, so, um, my, my dad, uh, was, uh, my dad started collecting snakes in the swamps around Kalamazoo, Michigan, uh, when he was just a kid.

And by the time he was 16, he had 250 snakes in the basement. . Well, what kind of, so my grandfather, an anything he could catch around there, whether it was mass of SGAs, blue racers, garter snakes, and he would collect, you know, exotics he'd get from other people. Um, his dad, my grandfather was a carpenter, so my dad just kept collecting snakes and my grandfather just kept building these beautiful glass enclosures for him,

And when he was, um, started college in western Michigan University, he wrote a paper on how to keep wild-caught snakes alive and outside the wild, which was a mystery, um, back then in the 1930s. and, uh, Frank Buck, you'd have to be of a certain age to recognize that name, but Frank Buck was this kind of, uh, collector, adventurer.

A lot of people attribute him to Africa and he never went to Africa. It was always India and Malaysia. Hmm. Uh, where he'd go over, and you don't do it these days, but you know, they caught wild animals and, and put 'em in zoos and circuses, you know, something that we don't, we don't do anymore. But, you know, it's just, you have to look at things.

That's why I was saying in the context of the times. So my dad wrote this paper that Frank Buck got ahold of and invited my dad to come to Long Island and work in his animal compound. So my dad went to his professors and said, you can come back here anytime. You know, Frank Buck is such a big deal that you know, you'll never get that chance again.

So he left, but he never went back. He just kept doing animal stuff. So he went from there to Florida and he actually worked on, um, Some of the Tarzan movies that he was one of Johnny Weiss Miller's stunt doubles. So there's this long history of involvement in the animal trade. And then of course, when he married my mother in 1957, you know, she was right into it, right with him.

And, um, so it's just, you know, I, I'm not in a business anymore, but the one thing I got out of it is I was always around animals, always talking about animals, always learning. So, you know, when I'm sitting around at camp with my hunting buddies, you know, it's just like they, they come to me with their questions, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm the animal encyclopedia when they, when they wanna know stuff.

And if I don't know it, I'll look it up. This is down in Florida, isn't it? Yeah, I, I, um, was born Ohio, but I, I grew up in south Florida and right now I live in, uh, central Florida about 45 minutes north of Orlando.

john: Yeah. For some reason I had it in my mind that you were on the West Coast, so you're at a zoo, it looks like.

david: Not anymore. No, no. But

john: you were there from like 81 until recently, right? Until like 2018. You were a director,

david: ceo. I was the business, yeah. Yeah. That was se several different facilities. Naples, the zoo in Naples, Florida, which is like the last town on the southwest coast before the Big Cypress in Everglades start that.

That's pretty much my family put together. My brother still works there. My mom's retired and then I left there and worked at a couple other places and then basically committed career suicide and, and I, I owe that to, uh, trips to Africa. My, the first time I went as an adult, I went twice with my dad when I was small, but the first time as an adult, uh, was in 2008.

My brother and I went to Namibia, did some sight scenes, some hunting, and uh, I, I came back to the zoo that year. I can't do this anymore, but it took me 10 more years to get out of it. I just, I just couldn't be around animals in the wild and look at things behind glass or fence anymore, just Oh, really? It just, it really bothered me.

It really bothered me, but I, I, I, I didn't know what else to do, so mm-hmm. , I just kept doing it in other places and, you know, now, and I just, you know, rein, reinvented myself and, and you know, I just turned 60 last year and I just, you know, reinvented myself. And now I have, you know, I've got traditional bow hunter.

I've developed a career as a real estate photographer and drone pilot. And then I've started getting my hands back around animals I applied for and was hired as, um, here in Central Flores with, uh, game commission calls. Um, a bear response contractor. Bear gets hit by a car. I go get it, take it out to a graveyard in the woods, process it, collect the data for the scientist.

Um, I'll go to a property and mitigate bear conflict If bear's, you know, broken into a patio or getting somebody's trash or attack a pet, we, we go out and try to, you know, mitigate that. And then, um, And then also I trap, I trap bears that need relocated. So it's really, it's really interesting work. I'm super grateful to, to fall into that job.

john: Well, I don't know quite what to ask you next because it seems to me that your, your traditional bull hunting sort of came next in your life. But I do want to know eventually how you go from that background for that long into an editor of a national magazine. So there's that story that I wanna ask you about.

But before we get there, tell me about your traditional bow hunting. Cuz you mentioned to me when we first started talking that you were an, I think you called yourself an adult onset hunter. So how did that come about? And then why on earth would you choose traditional bow hunting to get started with your hunting?

David is crouched in the grass. His bow lays beside him. A black snake, quite large, recoils with it's mouth open in front of him!
David has a familial history with snakes!

david: I, I did it all backward, John. I really did. Um, I started, I probably didn't hunt until my mid, mid-late thirties. Um, you know, we always had adventure-type books in the library cuz that's, you know, my dad, you know, you know, he went to Africa, Australia, South America, um, in his travels and, you know, he was just a hard knocks, rough and tumble kind of guy.

So, you know, he had those kinds of books in our library, you know, whether it was, you know, Teddy Roosevelt or Sasha Smo or all that stuff he grew up reading. So it was always fascinating, these, these people that would, uh, you know, guard far off places and getting all kinds of mischiefs. So, uh, that kind of thing have always fascinated me, but I just never put the hunting thing in with it.

And it was. Combination of, of two things that happened. My, my best friend, he's a, a veterinarian in, uh, Toledo, Ohio, Dr. Paul Piper. We, we grew up together. We used to take our animals to a big park in Ohio called Cedar Point. Every summer. That's how I met, you know, three guys that are, you know, not best friends for life.

But, um, Paul had gone, uh, and, and worked in a veterinary practice in Alaska, but never hunted in Alaska. And then he came back and bought a practice in Toledo and he bought it from a hunter. And that that hunter was a traditional guy who, in part of the process of the turnover, made Paul A. Long bow. So that was going on.

So Paul's like, this is what I'm into now. And that peaked my curiosity. And about the same time I went to a damn Yankees concert, which was Ted Nugent's Super Group with Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades and Michael Carone. And on the way out there was Ted Nugent's Bow Hunting catalog. So I picked one up and.

Peruse that. So those things just got me interested and, you know, I, maybe this hunting thing, there's, there's something going on with this. So I just started just feasting on everything I could get my hands on. And, um, locally met, met a few guys when I was still living in South Florida and just kind of rolled into that.

But the. I couldn't, I couldn't afford a, a traditional bow at the time. Um mm-hmm. , I had just gone through a divorce and paying child support in alimony and, uh, just, just wasn't in the budget. So Paul and I went to this, uh, hardware store just over the Ohio border in mi in Bliss Field, Michigan. And they had these Jeffrey Recurs hanging on the wall, and I just couldn't get one.

Then I just couldn't, and I'm just drooling. It's like, that's what I want to do. But, uh, the manager of the shop, Keith, said, I've, I've got this old Hoyt compound. I'll give it to you cheap. I'm like, well, that's better than nothing. I'm walking out here with something. So I got home to start. Never shot it with sites to start shooting at Bare Bow.

And, um, then one of my employees walked in one day with a copy of Traditional Bow Hunter Magazine. I'm like, whoa, what is this? It was life changing. I'm like, this is a whole. Subculture within the subculture, and I'm, I'm, and the writers and the editing and the photographs, it just, it just sucked me in. So, you know, right away, you know, before I even finished it, I sent in a subscription card.

It's like, I need to know more about this .

john: So when is this,

david: when is this statement? This is, uh, 90, 94, 95. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So there, there's the context of the times. So I ended up, um, ordering my, my first bow from, uh, archery Traditions, uh, up in Georgia, which the late Great Dan Quillian, that was his bow shop. He owned that.

And so I got a Patriot Recurve and, and my travel. Yes, I remember those both. I remember that both. Yeah. It was, it was a great bow. So that just kind of started that. And then I found a, a Jeffrey Recurve at a good price and. I, you know, just started, you know, reading the As Bill books, the videos, just anything I could get my hands on, you know?

Mm-hmm. and, and Bill Langer was putting out, this is all VHS then, you know? Yeah, no, no. D V D no downloading, it was all VHS in the mail out of catalog. So, you know, I, I was watching Bill Langer's videos, I was watching the stuff that, um, Denny Sturgiss was putting out. Mm-hmm. and as Bell's stuff, books and videos and just, just sucking up every bit of him.

And my buddies would come over, my wife would cook dinner. We would just sit around just gobbling this stuff

john: up. Those were the days, weren't they, when you'd go to the local archery store and you'd rent the VHS tapes of, of Hunts, you know, I remember that. .

david: Yeah. Yeah. Just, I'm glad you know, I mean, YouTube is a great resource now and there's a lot of entertainment in found, but I'm, I'm glad I had that, that transition issue, that, that history, because it just, it just seems so, so pure then, and just, it seemed like even more of a small subculture because it was just, you had to know where to find this stuff.

It just wasn't a, you know, a click of a, a computer mouse. But, uh, so I, so I shot traditional and then, then I had, you know, a few years later, I had one more, a few years later I had this complete meltdown where my form went to heck and I was missing shots, and messing up. And, but you know, I just, I just, I gotta put it away.

I gotta put it away. I'm just, this is just, it's, when it stops being fun, you gotta stop. So I'm like, I just, I had, I've gun hunted a little bit, but just doesn't trip my trigger light archery. Yeah. And I, so I thought, you know, the next best thing is, is, is high tech gear. So I bought compounds and I learned to shoot 'em and, and shoot 'em well, and, um, And you know, I killed 20 animals.

You can see a few things on the wall behind me here. And then I was done, then I was done. And, um, I was still writing for tbm and you know, I just doing my book review column at the time and feeling like a real poser. I really was, I mean, Don really, you know, I would, I would express this with Don. He's like, you know, just do what you gotta do, but I know where your heart is.

Mm-hmm. , and you know, finally when I just sold that stuff and just reinvented myself as a trad guy again, Don was, He couldn't have been happy or couldn't been. He goes, I'm so pleased with his turnaround. You know, and it was, uh, one of the best things that I did. But you know, what, what that ki what that kind of side road made me do, and especially when I got back hardcore into tread only is it really, you know, this time I'm, I.

You know, I stand accused of a grip it and rip it style. Before I just, I just, just what I did, you know, shot instinctively, still do. But now I've just, I've really broke down my form, you know, to the infant decimal level, just exploring every little bit of how I shoot, how I do it, all the nuances. And, um, I just, I, I think I'm a, I'm a better archer now than I was back then.

So that, that part of it was, was good. And also, I, I, I wrote a piece, it was. December January issue this year. Um, switch switching to left-handed, which I should have done before I knew I always had this cross eye dominance. And, um, I'm still getting folks to go. How did you go about doing that? Um, and, you know, the, you know, recently passed away.

Fred Asbell when I started doing it. I mean, you know, Fred's a busy guy. He's always, he was always doing something, but he really took the time and sent me a very long email and broke it down and goes, if you're switching hands, here's how you go about it. And wrote me a page long email and that was very, very useful to get me over the hump and, and get going because I was just, I was just so intimidated to try, you know, I know people that had done it, but it seemed like an almost impossible process, but, you know, but it wasn't, and it was probably one of the best things I did from archery.

Hmm. Interesting.

john: Um, yeah, your name is certainly recognizable for all of the articles that you've written. I haven't seen that one. When did you write that one? Uh,

david: it was December, sorry, I'm looking at my whiteboard here. It would've been December, January of this year. So, uh, yeah, 3, 3, 3 issues ago. Those

john: three issues are still in their plastic covers.

That's embarrassing. At

david: least you have 'em. At least you have '

john: em. Oh, yeah, I know. I, yeah, it, you know, it's funny, your, your trajectory sounds so, To mine, you know, just getting into traditional bow hunting almost. Hmm. It just called to me, you know, and it was just something where I was like, whoa. My friend Warren Witherspoon, he's no longer with us, and he was the owner of Frontier Fishing Lodge and that I had a job there in my twenties up in the Northwest Territories guiding fly fishing.

And he was a, he was a really good bow hunter. We have this thing here in Alberta, I don't even know if it's around anymore, but anyways, you, I think he was, uh, a master hunter, it was called because he had shot, uh, Pope and young animals from all the big game species in Alberta. So it was, yeah, it was kind of a big accomplish accomplishment.

And, uh, anyways, he had these bows that I was always just in awe. And so we'd go hunting and I would have my compound and, but of course, you know, traditional boat hunting was something I started with cuz back when I was a kid, um, Actually that's not true. I mean, I actually started with a little green fiberglass recurve when I was like eight.

We all nice. Yeah, right. And we all, yeah. Ben Pearson, I think it was, yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And then switched over to an old browning deluxe nomad, um, and shot at no sites, of course, no release, cuz it was no such thing back in 1978 when, when , when I bought the thing. So, yeah. And then like you just kind of fell away from it a little bit.

Uh, I got into the, into the, you know, the more higher tech stuff for a little bit and then that was really hollow to me. And then I actually got away from hunting altogether for Yeah. Like almost a decade. It, you know, where I just would dabble in it. Right. And there was a lot of stuff going on in my life, you know, switching businesses and switching farms and building farms and whatnot.

So, I guess I always had that excuse, but then, yeah, now getting back into it again, that sort of feeling that I have when I was young is right back again. It's, uh, so it's pretty interesting. I am interested in reading that article now of you switching to left hand. I guess I want to know why, why did you wanna switch to left hand?

What was, what was going on?

david: It was a mental and also a, a physical thing because I've had, you know, in, in my past life, I've. Beat up by a lot of stuff, and I've always had this old injury in my right elbow that just always bothered me drawing. And, um, between that and I, I knew I had the eye dominance issues.

Oh. So, but yeah, those two things working against me the whole time, you know, and that would account for missing and choking and target panic, all kinds of stuff. But yeah. Um, since I, since I've, you know, switched to left, I, I might miss, but I don't feel target panic like I used to, you know, short it come in.

I used to have this technique where I'd come to like seven, seven eights of a draw. Not even full draw. Mm-hmm. , and still be accurate. But you can't sustain that for long. It's sloppy, you know? So the switching to left-handed, It just resets everything. Yeah, it is. It's like starting over. Yeah. And your brain, you, you, you basically, you're re hardwire in your brain, so you're absolutely right.

It is like it is from scratch. Mm-hmm. . It really was. And it's like, as I said, I I, I'm just, I'm an idiot for not doing it years ago. You know, I, I admit it. Full disclosure. I should, I should have done it. But, you know, better late than never. But, but

john: did it even cross your mind to do It wouldn't cross

david: mind.

It, it didn't. Yeah, it didn't until, um, my friend Chris Broer, he had a, um, he lives over by St. Petersburg. He's one of my best hunting buddies. And, um, and Chris made the switch for a physical reason. Hmm. But I thought, man, you're just an aberration. I can never pull that off. He was better than me, you know, but, um, but he did it and was accurate and, you know, still, and, and became, he was always a good shot and he became as good left as he was.

Right. So, you know, I kept thinking about that. Well, he did it. Other people have done it. and you know, people have preached for a long time that if you've got that eye domin and go on, just shoot with your dominant eye, so mm-hmm. , what's interesting is, um, when I, when I let that arrow go, and, you know, obviously not a longer shot, but you know, 20 or less, I, I see the knock in the target right at that v of the shelf in the riser and I never saw that before, you know, so it's like lined up perfectly and I, when it does that, I know I've done it right.

So it's really gratifying when that happens. Oh,

john: interesting. You know, I've been shooting for so long, since, well, like almost 40 years now, and, uh, it's funny to hear you talk the way you talk and describe the problems that you had shooting because yeah, those are the same problems I've had for whatever, 20 years, you know, like coming to that seven eighths draw, almost like a snap shooting thing.

It's just what I do. Um, And you're right, it is sloppy. So I guess I make up for it by just getting close to animals. Like, so I lose a lot of opportunities because I just, I can't, I can't make a 30 yard shot anymore. Me and Jeff Lander used to shoot all the time and we'd shoot out to 50 or 60 yards and we were getting pretty dead, deadly at it.

But yeah, not anymore. So it's one of those things where, I don't know, I'll probably just stick with it and have fun being unsuccessful and, and trying to get close to these animals. And, you know, I mind you, you changed late in life too, so I don't know. Dude, it's

david: inspiring to hear, you know, it just, you want, it, it, I mean, people, I mean now you've got, you know, a lot of string walking gap shooting three under and, and the accuracy that you're seeing some of these guys is, it's almost compound like, but yeah, that's, It's the typical person, you know, it's still to me, you know, especially instinctive.

It's a, it's a short range game. Um, one of our writers that I've become good friends with, Tim Lewis was, um, he's got a, he's on a lease about an hour and a half south of me. And we, we go out there and harass the hogs and do a lot of stump shooting out in the f cattle fields and stuff. And, um, Tim, actually, we got a multi-part, the, the column we do in the magazine Skin A cat several different angles at one topic, and we've got one coming up and, um, Tim's doing part of it.

I'm doing part of it. And one of our other writers, um, Kirby Kohler's doing it. And what we, what we're doing is just the kind of Stan Honey that you like to do. And Tim, Tim Lewis, he's, he says he is not a great shot, but he'll hit a cow pad at 40 yards , but he doesn't shoot at anything that far, you know, so I've shot with him and I know the man is deadly, but he likes things.

He is his cabin. I mean, and this is, you know, these are hardwired small Florida deer and his cabin is just loaded with eight, 10, and 12 points taken right here in Florida. So. And how does he doing it though? He is doing it eight feet above the ground, and most of 'em are 10 yards or less. Mm-hmm. . So that, that's just really a lesson when you see people, you know, thinking they have to climb to, you know, 20 feet in the air and sometimes even more ridiculous heights.

And it's like, you know, he proves that, you know, even on these small, just insanely wound up Florida deer that, you know, have, you know, coyotes and cougars and all kinds of things after him and hunters, he's, he's proven it. Yeah, absolutely.

john: The deer, that big buck that I shot. Uh, when I go to get into that stand, um, I just reach up and hang my bow on the stand , and then climb up.

Like I don't even have to hoist the bow up. I just, yeah, it's pretty low. It's in a little scraggly popler tree that I just can't get any higher. But yeah, I. For a long time now, I've put in, uh, nine steps cuz we're allowed to do screw-in steps up here. So I do nine steps and it gets me at about, you know, 11 or 12 feet.

Uh, and that's all I've ever done. And especially now that I'm getting older, is just, man, I don't want to be any higher. It's, uh, you know, it's

david: just, it's a, it's a long way down. It hurts. So it's scary, dude. Yeah, yeah. , but you look at what the, what the wels are doing, you know, sometimes four feet off the ground, but they Yeah.

Right. You know, they talk about going and buying or, you know, picking up used, uh, you know, fake Christmas trees and sticking those branches behind. That's a great, you know, just, just the block, just for the cover and, and killing. I mean, everybody knows the kind of bucks, those two. Oh yeah. And sometimes from four feet off the ground.

So it's just,

john: there's, I did that last year where I, I was in a spot where I was like, I don't need to be off the ground. So I actually strapped, uh, my stand to the base of the tree and, uh, had a dough walk past and didn't shoot. But, um, yeah, that's a new thing for me too, is trying to get good at the ground hunting cuz I can see a point in time where, you know, I just, I mean, I'm, I'm still in really good shape, but, you know, the, the years are coming when, you know, I just won't be able to climb up in a tree and so then the choice is gonna be to hunt or not to hunt.

So I better get good at hunting from the ground, I guess. Hey, talk to me, David, about hey, how long have you been writing for a traditional bow hunter? You mentioned that that's how you started and maybe that'll be the segue into how you got this gig that you're at now as, uh, being the

david: editor. I don't remember the fir.

My first piece is when, um, they had that column called traditional destinations, and it could be, you know, somewhere in your own state. It could be halfway across the world. So, um, I wrote a, a. Calling for that on St. Vincent Island here in Florida. Um, you know, there's a St. Vincent the Caribbean, but this is St.

Vincent. Um, it's up in the Northern Gulf of Mexico and it's really very near St. George Island, which is a very good vacation spot for folks. So St. Vincent is just west of, there's St. George and there's little St. George where nobody goes. And then there's St. Vincent, which is the government bought in 1968.

Before that had been privately owned by a couple different owners, and it was, uh, basically an island hunting preserve. Oh, really? It was, There were, they, they put pheasant out there. They were a zebra, black buck, all this stuff. So when the feds got it in 68 and turned it into a national wildlife refuge, they took everything off, but they left the sandbar deer there, which for folks that don't know, sandbar or basically an elk size animal from, from Asia.

So St. Vincent has three hunts a year. They have an archery hunt, and they have a primitive weapon hunt also for whitetail, where you can use boar muzzle loader. And then they have a hunt for the sandbar deer. There's uh, there's whitetails there. Obviously on the island there's feral hogs and sandbar. . And so I wrote a piece on hunting St.

Vincent that, that, uh, Don picked up. And that would've been, oh boy, I bet 15 plus years ago. But then, then I did another one, um, shortly after that. It was called In the Shadow, the Thompsons, and it was about hunting Central Florida where uh, you know, uh, Morris Thompson, his brother will hunted down here and they pick that up.

And that's the thing that it's encouragement when you go to the mailbox and your story is in a national publication, it's infectious. Oh yeah. So when it happens, the first time you go, that's pretty cool. I want more of that. So then you think up, you know, some other story to write, some other theme, some other interesting topic.

And along that time, and this is what I told somebody the other day, and you know, part of the job as editors, you do have to reject material for different reasons. It could be that. The piece is fine, but I've got too many things on elk or too many things on feral hog, so I just, I can't take it right now.

Um, you know, you're willing, you're welcome to send it el elsewhere, but, um, and then sometimes it's just, it's just not there for what we need. And, you know, as, as Don Thomas says, you know, writing is a complex skill. It's, it's not child's play good. Writing is a complex skill, and that's the kind of expectation that we, you know, we have for the magazine.

You know, since 89, the reputation is built on the kind of content that we put in there. What I suggested, this person that, you know, unfortunately I couldn't take his material, is I gave him just a paragraph and, and a lot of editors wouldn't even do this. They just, some don't even reply. I've heard that if, if they don't want it, you don't even hear back from 'em.

But I, I, I try to, you know, be encouraging, not discouraging. So just as, uh, a rabbit hole or sidebar, you know, my writing, I was always interested in writing, creative writing English class. I was just all over it, you know, I would think up something and, and just come up with it. I started writing our, our state archery club that I was president of for nine years, traditional Bow horns of Florida.

We had a, a a three year, uh, three time a year publication called Stick Bow News, and it just, the magazine was getting a little bit thin. I'm like, we need some more stuff in here. . So I started writing and then when you get that feedback that, you know, after I had my first little story in there, one of the board members come up and said, well, we've got a writer now.

But you know, it's like, that was very nice, very complimentary. But I look back now and it's rubbish that I, you know, , but you've gotta start somewhere. So that's why I told this fellow, you've gotta start somewhere. And writing is practice failure. Practice failure, and just just, and just, and just keep it up.

And so I started writing for our stick bow news and, and we never had anything in there like a book review column or D v d, so just something interesting for the members. I just started reviewing things for the magazine and something that very rarely happens. that a national magazine will take something that's been somewhere else.

But I wrote up, um, Jim Corbett's, man, eaters of Kamal for our little state thing. Mm-hmm. , Don Thomas had come down as a speaker and you get an honorary membership. So Don ends up getting this back in Montana, looks at it, love my review of the book and says, I'm gonna put this in tbm. So I'm like, wow, that's, that's gratifying.

Yeah, no. So after that I threw a couple more book reviews, you know, so occasionally I would get in that column. Um, my good friend, good friend of Don Stu j Campbell wrote his book, long Bow. I reviewed that. And then, and, uh, December of 2012. Don sent an email and said, you know, we've been discussing this internally, me and tj and we would like to be like the other magazines and have one voice for this column.

Cuz before it was anybody was, you know, that they would accept, could review something, send it in. So are you interested? It's like you don't even, of course I am, you know, just, just be asked to, to get my own column in a national magazine. Heck yeah. I was all over it. So that was, uh, you know, December of 2012 that they handed the column to me full.

And then in the meantime, I did a few features here and there, and then a couple years ago now, yeah, just two years ago, uh, TJ sent me an email and said, can we talk on the phone sometime? And it's like, you know, I've met TJ in person a couple times, you know, but mostly it was just dealing with Don, you know, occasionally TJ would, you know, send me something that from the woods or whatever, you know, here's my hunt.

But most everything, you know, 95% was with Don. So TJ says he wants to talk right away. I go, uhoh, am I in trouble? Is the call him dead? What's, you know, so we gotta talk. Yeah. So he, you know, he said, him and Donovan chatting and, you know, Don's, you know, thankfully, you know, he got, he got through that brain surgery mm-hmm.

and he is very healthy and just had a lot of, lot of more things he wanted to do. And, and TJ said, you know, we've, we are looking at people and you're, you're on the top of the list. Are you interested? And again, Idiot would turn that down. You know what a compliment

john: to get that call from. Yeah.

david: Oh, just, I was just, he goes, take 24 hours to think about it, you know?

And I didn't even need three seconds, but, you know, I just, I just walked out of my, my shed off played cool in the back 40, know I just went to talk, my wife and I was just, I was on cloud nine, you know, and then like a little kid, I have to call my mom, cuz you know, my mom was like one of my biggest cheerleaders.

Yeah. And you know, she would always, my mom's not into hunting or anything, but she would always, you know, read my book, review columns and, you know, now she gets a copy of the magazine every time. Oh, so that just saying yes. Then that really started the, the bootcamp of, you know, okay, here's where you're at now, here's where you need to be.

And, um, I mean, who. Who would be a better coach than Don Thomas? Oh man. You know, I mean, who, who in the outdoor industry writes better than Don? I'm, you know, I just, you can read his stuff. You know, when people sit online, I don't, I don't fly fish, but I buy his fly fishing books. Mm-hmm. , because the writing is that good, or, or the wing shooting you water follow, yeah.

Everything. It's just, there's, the man has such a gift that everybody, I mean, that's, everybody just eats, eats that stuff up, you know? And just the fact that, you know, he'd been with the magazine so long was terrifying. Cause there's Don and there's Dave. Um, you know, I know my place in this world, , but the fact that I, I had the support of Rob and TJ and Don, it just, you, you know, that gives you the impetus, like, okay, I got a lot to learn, but, but I can do this because, um, just to step up into this world is just, uh, you know, I didn't see it coming, but it's, it's been an incredible ride so far.

john: Hmm. Traditional bow hunter That's the website, right? I don't wanna pull it up in front of me cuz then I'll lose your screen. Yes. Traditional bow hunter Yeah. And I just have stacks of them in my closet and um, still go back and read them from time to time. They're pretty timeless, you know, they go, especially when you go back in into the nineties.

That was my heyday. That was when I was outfitting Whitetails. We were doing the trade show circuit all uh, around the us I had, gosh, you know, my memory's going, but I had guys writing books. What was that? Somebody thrashed me in his book. What was his name? I probably shouldn't say his name. Anyways, it was something about moon, moon phases with the box.

Right? And he came up hunting. I think I comped him on a hunt, even . And we were, so, I was doing my best. And he was one of these guys that, you know, was an accomplished bow hunter, but I don't know whenever it would be like me coming down to hunt pigs with you or something. Right. Like, just don't know what I'm doing, so you're gonna have to help me out.

Right. And uh, so he came up and Alan, that was it. I had to run the camera, so I had to sit with him in each, in each tree stand. So I had to put up two stands for every set that we did, which was a pain in the butt. And, uh, sure. And two people in a tree hunting trophy whitetails, you know, you know what that's like.

But sure enough, we hunt this one spot. And again, he was, he was so negative. And cuz we were hunting, it was basically this. Windrow or fence line of trees. And it was right in the middle of the field, so like in the middle of the length of the field. So you're 400 yards from each edge of the field in this fence line sitting in a poplar tree.

And I don't know, it was a property that I'd known and I know the, how the deer travel. And uh, he was so negative, he just did not want to be in that tree that morning. This is never gonna work. And sure enough, he, uh, you know, this. I can see the spot coming down the fence line like five yards out from the edge of the fence line.

And uh, I'm like, get ready, get ready. Here he comes a pre-law to this. What's about to happen is a few nights before we were out target shooting and he would draw the bow back. And I don't know if you remember back in the day, those two prong, uh, arrow rests. Yes. They were metal like aluminum. And then everybody was shooting aluminum arrows back then too, right?

So it was aluminum and aluminum. And the guy that I outfitted for, Jim Hole Jr. We always set, you know, made people like, you gotta put hockey tape, we call it hockey tape in Canada, but it's like cloth tape. , right? You've gotta wrap those prongs with cloth tapes, . And he is like, nah, you don't, whatever. And I'm like, dude, it's gonna cost you.

And sure enough, he draws this bow back and it's just in the frost in the, in the morning. It just was his . And the buck just exploded out of his tracks and was gone. And then, I don't know, months later, the book comes out and he just thrashes me in the book about how I don't know what I'm doing and Wow.

How unsuccessful we were. And oh my goodness, it was a train wreck. So I'm, I'm glad that I can't remember his name in case he's still around. But anyways, um, what is your favorite thing to hunt? David? You got one more hunt left in you? What is it?

david: Does it have to be something I've done or something I want to do? That's two different questions. Oh, you

john: go. All right. Uh, both.

david: I wanna go back to Africa and I won in England cuz I didn't get one last time. And, um, so that's something I, I have hunted not successfully. But then the other thing I really wanna hunt is access deer.

And it could be Texas. Hawaii. It's just that really, that species appeals to me. I li love the way they look. I love their horns. Their meat's supposed to be incredibly delicious. So I, I like those out of the way things, you know. Yeah. White whitetails are the bread and butter of hunting, you know, in, in North America.

We know that. And, you know, it's a, it's a big part of the magazine. It's, you know, people want the species, everybody wants to identify. But, you know, I'm, I'm just as excited as a editor to get some on hunting feral goats in Australia. Like we mm-hmm. we published last year, um mm-hmm. , because just to me it's the, it's the variety there.

There'd be things, you know, I'll ne I'll never hunt desert Bighorn by Sure as heck, like reading about it. It's, that's the whole thing. That's what a magazine does. It brings the adventure to your mailbox. And, you know, it's, it's a whole lot better than, you know, watching television. You know, I just, I, I love, I love the written word.

I love the way people describe things, and I've just, I've just always been my whole life. And I, I guess that's how the book review thing came. I just always been a voracious reader from when I was small. You know, my, my, my dad always, you know, read things to my brother and I, you know, at bedtime, you know, my dad loved to read too.

My mom too. So that's just, it's just part of our, our, our family culture. So I just, you know, I'd rather pick up the book than, than watch television any day. You know, I just Oh, good for you. Yeah. I just, you know, I just, you look at things on TV now, it's like, you know, I can't, I can't watch reality TV and watch, uh, you know, an hour show about somebody is basically eating themselves to death.

You know? It's just like, that's, this is, if that's how you wanna spend your time, Not me, not me. I, I got better things to do. Yeah. You know, you think of any ridiculous thing you do, I look at how many arrows could I practice in that time, you know, or what other, something productive I can do that's gonna help me as an individual.


john: that's, that's a good way to look at it. I'm sort of doing something similar, although just trying to get, I'm trying to grow the podcast obviously, and then in hand with that is trying to grow the website. And it used to be when I started the farm business, you put a website up and you write some articles and, I don't know, it was just a lot easier, even 15 years ago to put together a brand and have it accomplished something than it is today.

And it's just so sort of dirty and sleazy and, and cheating, you know, like, so to do seo, search engine optimization, you know, they want you to, to pay for it and. I've just refused. So like you, I am spending my time now writing and that's what got me to get in touch with you. I was just sitting here the other day going, oh, I've got a good idea.

Or at least I thought it was a good idea. I'm gonna float it to David and see what he says. And luckily you agreed. Um, absolutely, absolutely. And, and having fun, just writing little pieces on the blog. One of the things that's sort of starting, I was really fascinated by your story of adult onset hunting, because one of the things that's sort of happening with my brand is how many people are getting in touch with me about they want to get into hunting or fishing.

Uh, or they just have, and they want more advi. They want more information, they want more advice. And it's funny for all of the resources that are out there online, You still just want to talk to somebody or you still just wanna read something, you know, like, here are the steps. Sure. To do this. I think people like lists, you know, or the, and they certainly like talking to people.

david: Um, no, it was almost a segue to this, this, this column that, uh, TJ gave me the green light and we started this year. It's just, it's called traditional bow hunting 1 0 1. And what the premise is, is that somewhere someone is picking up this magazine for the first time mm-hmm. , and, you know, I under, like, I'm a huge fan of Gray Sporting Journal.

It's some of the best writing in the world. Uh, you know, if you, if you get in grays, you're above the above and, and Gray's premise pretty much is you already know how and fish. Mm-hmm. , we're not here to teach you that. We're here to entertain you through some of the best writing in the world. And I get that.

And, you know, At tbm, we wanna have quality, written material, good content, but also there are new people coming into this. And it's a lifestyle, you know, that's why, you know, last year on the, on the bottom of every cover, it's that, um, heritage, community lifestyle. Cuz that's what the triad life is. And when you, the hunting is a lifestyle and there's cultures within subculture, but you talk to anybody shoots long bows, recurs, sailboats.

It's on a different level than, and, and I'm not disparaging the guys that, you know, every archery season, they, they, they pick up a, a compound and that's their thing. And then they go straight to a muzzle loader and a rifle and that, that's fine. They're out in the woods, they're hunting, you know, they're not at the mall or on the golf course or something.

So I'm, I'm thinking of those people that are just, they're, they're into it and they wanna do it at this, this organic level of single string archery. Yeah. Good word. And what, and what do you, what do you do to get started? You know, like, you know, in this, this upcoming issue, uh, Don's written one Long Bower Recurve.

And you think that's such an obvious question, but if you don't know anything about that, it's a gigantic mystery. I just

john: answered that question for a guy. Just like, uh, I don't know, we've been recording for 45 minutes. It was about 55 minutes ago. I answered that question for a guy.

david: Yeah, yeah. And, uh, you know, Don Donna's wife, Lori, and, uh, you know, Lori's an awesome photographer and a, and a very good writer too, but they're having a, we're gonna spread it out, but it's a three part piece on, okay, you killed it.

What's next? Cause you can have, you know, first, first time hunter and their first deer hog or elk or whatever's laying out the feet. Now what do I do? And Don takes you from that moment that you a successful blood trail to, how do you get. broken down the field. How do you get to the truck? Do you hang it, do you ice it?

Good job. Uh, whatever, you know? So it's gonna be a great, it's gonna be a great series. So, you know, it's just a couple of topics that we've been, uh, Ethan Rodrig from the Stick Boys Podcast. Um, you know, he, he did one on, on how to scout. So we're just thinking of those basics and, you know, we're not gonna absorb the whole magazine, you know, it's, we're, you know, we're not a, a hunting bible, but again, we're gonna devote at least once a month or once every issue, uh, to these kind of topics that help.

But, and we're also, what I'm expecting when I give out these assignments is that, you know, write it so somebody's been doing this 20 years might pick up something too, because nobody knows everything. Nobody knows the balance, everything.

john: Yeah, exactly. Well, and I'm the same way, right. I've been doing it for so long, just, you know, and, uh, I still like reading those how-to, those basic sort of things.

It's, it's just fun because you're right. You will pick up things and you Oh, that's a good idea. Um, so to hear you guys going that direction with the magazine is brilliant. And of course you have Becca Garris as well doing the, uh, the food columns.

david: Yeah. Becca has really stepped up and, you know, she's doing features and columns too, but, um, she's been one, my, one of my go-to people for mm-hmm.

for the cooking column. A Absolutely. And, um, and that also it's big part of why people

john: are hunting, you know, is to get

david: that right. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, she has a huge social media following mm-hmm. , so, you know, to get, you know, associate Becca's name with the magazine, it's just this great thing.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, but you know, there's other, you know, there's other female writers we've got working with us too. So it's just, uh, it's a good thing that shows folks, it's not a man sport. It's not a male sport, you know? Oh, yeah.

john: No, uh, that's the other thing that's happening with me and the show and the people I talked to, David, is that I'm, I'm gonna say like historically I've been 80 20 male female, but I would say in even the last six or seven months that I'm, I might even be 80 20 the other way now.

I don't know what's going on. . It isn't my rugged good looks, I can tell you that . It's just there's women that are really getting interested in, in these sports, like fly fishing and hunting. I just did an episode actually with a friend of mine, Lisa. Um, she's never been hunting in her life, so she's 40, has never been hunting in her life and like you are talking about, does not know what to do.

Did not know how to hunt. So we, we went through that process. We weren't successful cuz we didn't see a rabbit, but she doesn't know what to do after, you know, after we are successful. So this, these articles that you're talking about, that's brilliant.

david: I, I'll bet you that actually, I just listened to that episode with her today when I was editing.

Oh, did you? My real estate photos. Yeah. So, yeah. Cool. Yeah, just a couple hours ago. So yeah, that was, I really enjoyed that, that you're walking and talking and recording. Um, I think that's a really unique way to do it. Um, mm-hmm. . And then I also, I also also is the one where you're, you're, you're whitetail hunting and you're talking, talking, and then it goes to a whisper when you're getting in your stands.

So it's just, uh, again, that's, that's, that's different. And that's what you've gotta do is, is you know, be daring, be different. Don't do what's, what's typical. So the fact that you walk, talk and you are teaching this person something about the woods, keep doing that kind of stuff. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah.

Thanks, buds. You know, it wasn't anything, you know, your area's new to. and some of the things you were saying make sense for your area, and some were general just hunting advice that would work anywhere. Mm-hmm. . But, uh, yeah, keep that stuff up, um, because you've, you've, you've gotta find that individuality and I think you have so good job.


john: Well thanks bud. I appreciate it. And thank you for the opportunity to write for the, uh, for the magazine. I've appreciated it when Don was running things and now I appreciate this relationship that you and I have too. It's great. I just ran an Instagram story and I asked the question, you know, do you have any traditional archery questions?

And one of the questions that came up was, what is the preferred weight of a traditional bow? What would you recommend? And this was somebody who's just kind of getting into it. He's a fit, healthy, strong man, uh, young man. Uh, what would be your answer to. .

david: Well, first I suggest, well, the first thing you have to know is where you're hunting and what your, what your regulations are.

Mm-hmm. , you know, here in Florida, it's a, it's a 35 pound bow here in Florida. Is it really? Yeah. Um, and you've, I mean, there are, there are ladies who have went to Africa and killed planes game with a 38 pound bow. Hmm. And, but you've gotta have, you know, obviously you've gotta build a right arrow with a whole bunch of front of center if you're gonna, you know, punch through large animals like that.

But what I su would suggest first is by a, a bow that you might be embarrassed to tell the weight to your friends , , but do it because being owed is the first way to have disastrous. It just is. Yeah.

john: Like you were talking about, it just developed so many bad habits. Your shoulders are, are, and your elbows are destroyed 15 years from now.

Yeah, I agree. And

david: so when, when I was, I, I started something when I was president, tradit Bow Hunters as bringing in guest speakers. Um, and they, they didn't, they didn't have that before. So that I started a speaker in banquet as part of our shoot. And, um, but I brought, I brought, um, Fred Asbell down one year, um, not to do a talk at the banquet, but to do one of his shooting demonstrations.

And this is what kind of guy he was. I mean, I brought him down to do one, but everybody would not fit in the room. So he did. And that's, that's a guy who loves what he does. He loves what he does. Mm-hmm. . And he was more than happy to do a whole nother session cuz the, the room wouldn't hold any more people.

Um, you know, this is a big banquet room at the, uh, fish and game education camp here in Silver Springs. But what was Fred doing? His demonstration? Well, there's 25 pound black widow O Bow. Mm-hmm. , he wouldn't hunt with that, but he was demonstrating that this is lightweight, it's ridiculously lightweight, but you'll get your form.

Mm-hmm. . So whether you have to pick up, you know, I mean, you can find anything on eBay or the internet now just to find something, you know, 20 some pounds, low, 30 something just to work on your form. And, and it really doesn't matter at that point how well your arrows are tuned. That's not what it's about.

Mm-hmm. , you just, you're just working on your form. And once you feel that, um, then think about what you wanna hunt. where you want to hunt. Um, and that's the thing with these, um, I've shot Black widow bows forever in a day, but I I, when I was in Alaska last summer, um, Johnny Cart from Three Rivers had one of his dos, um, metal risers with I L F limbs, and I got mm-hmm.

looking at that and he let me, you know, look it over. I'm like, I'm all about trying something new. Mm-hmm. . So, I mean, that would be one advantage is an an I L F rig, which is international limb fit For people who don't know, it's, you know, it, the, the riser is configured so any limb that is I L F will fit in that riser that's engineered to take those limbs.

So you could buy an ILF riser and then, okay, I'm getting lightweight limbs. I feel my form is down. Now I wanna move up 10, 15 pounds to a hunting weight bow. You can get us keep changing limbs around. Mm-hmm. so, , I'd always shot Bowes 52 56 pounds. Mm-hmm. , you know, my widows. Um, but then when I went left-handed, you know that little voice that sits on your shoulder says, don't be stupid.

Start lo start light. So I ended up buying one of their stock Bowes that was, uh, it was a pma Greenleaf at, it was 42, so I was, I dropped just over 29, so I'm pulling like 45, 46. And that was just right for me. And yeah, I mentioned in that change in the lefthand that I've, you know, Well, no matter what I'm writing, I was like a hunting vignette to tie things together.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So, um, with that bow, I'm pulling 45, 46 pounds. I tuned it with a, you know, pretty heavy arrow for that weight. It was, uh, arrow was like 598 grains. Mm-hmm. , and, you know, huge front of center. And I, up at St. Mark's National Wildlife Refuge in the, in the panhandle here in Florida, opening morning, I, I killed two pigs within 15 minutes and that, and, you know, one was not huge, probably 80, 90, but the other one was a decent Sow, 1 40, 1 50 and, and the arrow complete pass throughs.

Oh, wow. With, you know, 45, 46 pounds on, on, on hog. Yeah.

john: That's a function of having a really,

david: that's you, that's that's a wide bodied animal. Yeah. To, uh, to get through, you know, and, and you know, one went the smaller one went through the, through the pig and stuck halfway in the dirt, which just Oh, wow.

Shocked me. And the other one came out when she spun around to run. So those, you know, those were genuine pass throughs with, you know, a bow in the mid forties. So, yeah. Well, my bow's 48

john: and yeah, that's, you

david: can, you can take anything with, people are killing elk with bows because we know a lot more about tuning than we used to.

Yeah, exactly. And, and a lot more, you know, people, you know, some of the old timers don't like when you start geeking out about front of center and stuff, but you know, you put 275 on the front of a carbon arrow, something's gonna be in trouble when you mm-hmm. granted, you still have to put the arrow where it matters.

but it's, yeah, the, I do geek out about the tni. You know, I, I love bear shaft tni. I love knowing that you know how it's gonna be. Because, because then I know in the field, even if, you know, I'm not, the form's not 100%. I know that arrow is, when I do my job, the arrow's gonna do its job. That's, that's why I like to tune that way.

john: And, uh, an untuned arrow. And what folks, what we mean by having a, an arrow that's tuned, or untuned, we were talking about that actually with Blaine PRUs is that, you know, an untuned arrow will be sort of sloppy in the air as it comes out of the boat. Out of the boat. It'll be fishtailing or purposing and, and it'll take a long time.

Those fletching to get that arrow stabilized and a stabilized arrow is gonna penetrate better fly straighter and, and obviously be more accurate. So that's what we're talking, but when we say tuning and tuning a bow is a function of, um, like David was talking about, getting enough weight on the front of the arrow that it, it flexes at the right amount to get around the riser.

Um, it's the right spine of the arrow, it's the right uh, brace height, and every bow is gonna have a different brace height, which is the height of the string off the back of the riser. What else am I missing, David? There's a Bud Shay. Um,

david: it's, a lot of it is just, um, Tinkering. Yeah. Right. And doing, doing this, you know, you, you, if I get a new black widow bow, I'll, I'll have it set up in minutes because I know no matter which I, yeah, I, I know, I know where my knock point is, you know, as, as at three six sixteens, I know, no matter which bow I shoot eight and three quarter brace height and I'm good to go.

But, you know, tinkering with this I L F stuff, it, it's been fun because it's from scratch. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, when I'm looking at metal riser and, um, I've got, I've got two of these rigs now. I've got a, um, a, uh, 17 inch Doss riser and I bought, uh, UAH Gobi limbs, and I'm telling you at those limbs, whew, man, they unfold the smoothest.

Un unbelievable. Unbelievable. But yeah. And so how am I gonna to tune this? So, uh, there's a, I think a few more few nuances with, with metal bows that, you know, I. I want 'em really quiet. And so I learned, you know, where I'm gonna put felt on the limbs of the riser. Um, I've never used limb savers on anything in the past, but I, I put limb savers, you know, four inches above the riser.

Um, you know, pads where the string, you know, slaps the, the top, the limb. Um, I'm using a new silencer that I'm in love with. It's called Silent Ridge. There're these little triangles that fold into each other. And, um, they were suggested to me, you know, it's called Silent Ridge and they're so easy to put on.

And I, I double those up and I've got those on. And my other one I've just started messing with is, uh, a Hoyt Satori, um, I l f with, uh, and I got Hoyt limbs, but I'm probably gonna buy, I'm probably gonna buy some UCA limbs for that one too. But I have got this, this Hoyt, um, that. It's probably the quietest bow I've ever shot.

I mean, I don't hear anything. I don't hear anything till the arrow hits the target. I mean, it's just the most subtle thump the way I've got it going. And I'm shooting, you know, carbon. I've got 2, 250, I've got a east and half out. Um, and, um, 175 grain point. So I've got, you know, 2, 2 50 on the front end. But, um, you know, I, I like messing with stuff.

Um, you know, I'm shooting V P a I, you know, killed those hogs. Um, this year. Vpa describe that for people. Um, that's, it's just a Broadhead manufacturer, uh, vantage point archery. They're out of Indiana, I believe. Um, started messing with, sorry, messing with her two blades. And, um, I'd always, you. I can never get a three blade the way I wanted it.

I just always struggled with it. I know people love him, shoot 'em, but, and then I just You sharpen stumbled upon one. Yeah, I just, I just, I just was never happy. And then I just stumbled upon one at Johnny Cartridges, tutorials on YouTube, how he sharpens his once a woodsman's. And so, you know, I brought, I bought the strap, I bought the little jewel stick.

I bought a new, uh, steel and Wow. Thanks Johnny. Because I'm I, these things, I, I, I'll hunt with 'em. I'll hunt with 'em because now, you know, you get a thick rubber band and that rubber band commits suicide before I even touch the blade with it. I mean, it's just so, oh, good. Again. And, and then my, my point is here is that never stop learning.

Never stop. That's, that's the fun part of this journey. It's fun, isn't it? It's not, it's not something that you put a away in a box and you wait until next season. And that's that. I, I think that's the infectiousness of the traditional part of it, because, you know, I shot compounds. Nothing, nothing against them.

But you know, once that thing's set up, and I still like shooting them when I was shooting them, but once it's set up, I, I didn't do a lot of messing around with it. But it's, for some reason with, with, it's kinda

john: like traditional a rifle where you just, you know Exactly right. I mean exactly. You're supposed to cite in your rifle and guys do do that.

Absolutely. Absolutely. They basically just pick it up out of the closet every year and it does the same thing over and over again. Right. It's,

david: uh, well, yeah, it's, it's, it's infectious. Just, you just, you know, and you, and you talk to other guys, they just eat this stuff up, you know, they just eat this stuff up, you know, and, and ladies too, once, once they get hooked into it, you know, it's just,

john: well, and it's got, you know, it's got a nice balance of tradition and history with some new stuff.

Right. Some, uh, we're always learning. I mean, front of center, that was nothing that we ever talked about. Even, you know, I don't know, like even back in the nineties, like, so we're talking, you know, 20 years maybe. and I don't know when it started. It might even started after that. But anyways, you never even heard that phrase when I was into it.

So there's always new things to learn and new things coming up that people figure out. Right. So that's another thing.

david: Yeah. I mean, accessory gear, you know, the packs have changed. The clothing's changed, but you know, there's still, you know, you still want to, you know, incorporate some of that tradition.

Like, you know when the pitcher I was, I think, yeah, I was on the December, January cover. Jerry Gowans took this picture of me. Mm-hmm. in Alaska. I didn't even know he took it. He didn't even know, I didn't even know he took the picture. And he texted me when he goes, you're on the next cover. I'm like, what?

But you know, I'm wearing, I'm wearing ku. You. , but with flannel, you know? Yeah. So it's just, I, I, so I got my feet in both worlds. ,

john: I'm actually trying to, you know, that is the reason right there, why my blog and my podcast will never succeed is cuz they'll never get sponsors. Um, I'm kind of on this kick of, you know, how to do it cheaply or how to do it, you know, how, how people can get into it without getting caught in that trap.

And I think that it is something that is fun. So it is fun to play with the new greatest, latest, whatever, but it is a barrier to entry for a lot of people because they just feel like, they feel embarrassed. Well, I don't have. That cooler or I don't have that, that hunting, you know, that camo pattern or whatever.

So I, you know, I can't do it. Right. So

david: it is, uh, nope, that's an excellent, excellent point. That's an excellent point. Actually. We're gonna have a, a, a skin, a cat column coming up. Um, and talk about, no, I think I, no, it's gonna be, I'm sorry. It's gonna be boho 1 0 1 and the writer's gonna talk about how he is mentoring somebody from scratch and the kind of, you know, clothing and stuff that, you know, you don't have to spend a fortune and, you know, we can talk about siku and kuk and first light all day long and that, that's great stuff.

But again, if you're just starting, a lot of people, even if they have the money, might not wanna invest that money until they know they. . You know, if you're, if you're taking up any sport, you know you're not gonna, you know, you're gonna break the whole bank. You're gonna slowly, incrementally try things.

Doesn't, you know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, you know, so, yeah. I mean, you can, you can kill a deer wearing the same, you know, camo pants from Walmart as you can. 150 pair, dollar pair of coup. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, there's something to be said, this, this tech gear to me is, it's, it's not blowing smoke, you know, cuz down here in Florida, ours, your.

Sizzles, it's Oh, sizzles. And I've worn all kinds of stuff, but I bought, I bought the, uh, the ku u t barone pants, the hot weather pants, and yeah, it's like wearing air conditioning. So, you know, people, people can tear up, you know, spending, you know, that kind of money on a pair of pants, but you know, . I, I might, I'll, I'll skimp somewhere else, but mm-hmm.

you know, and it's like somebody just starting, you know, you don't have to buy a $1,500 black widow kill a deer. Mm-hmm. . But if you wanna up to that, someday you can buy a Sam Recurve for a couple hundred bucks and go shoot anything. So, you know what, what we don't wanna do is discourage.

john: Yeah. And it is something to look forward to, you know, like it is like a black widow.

I've never owned a black widow cause they're just too expensive for me. But it is something I've always, like, I I would love to have a black widow. They've been sort of the, the higher standard of bows for as long as I can remember almost. So I'm

david: with you, Greg, where you wanna put your money, John? It's where you wanna put your money.

Like me. I don't, I don't own a bunch, you know, you know, for me a gun is, yeah, there you go. Is home protection? Home protection? I don't, you know, the Glock is in the dresser drawer, you know, but, um, for me, I don't own, there's not a bunch of rifles here. I don't, I don't own a boat. Um, I like fishing. I don't own a bunch of ex uh, rods.

You know, I, I've got, you know, a few ugly sticks that I can get a bass with if I want to , you know, but, you know, but I know some people have lots, little bits of, lots of everything. For me, it's just always been archery. Yeah. You know, that's me. That's where I put my money into. Now, if I had several things going on at once, I might not have.

The archery gear I have now. Mm-hmm. , but that's just, that's just me. I'm putting, in this case, I have limited time to spend outdoors. You know, I'm working three different gigs now. I have limited time in archery as where my eggs in the basket go.

john: I love that dude. Yeah. You nailed it. All right, my friend.

Well, it was so good to hang out with you a minute and a pleasure. Second pleasure. Thank you so much for hanging out with me tonight and doing this. I really appreci. I will do my best in May to put together something readable for you to have a look at. Do some photos. I know you will will. Yeah. It'll be fun.

It'll be fun. Yeah. Good luck on that hunt. Yeah, thanks. Good luck buddy. On that hunt, what's up next for you? Actually, hunting wise,

david: we're gonna try for, um, try to pull a pronghorn tag. Definitely probably gonna go back to Nebraska. Got a couple invites in the Midwest. Not sure which one I'll have time to take up.

Always something to chase around. Yeah. And if, you know, even when, like this year I didn't, I didn't kill a thing, but I had a good time.

john: Oh, good for you. Yeah. All right, well I'm looking forward to digging these last few issues out of their plastic wrappers here in the next day or two, buddy.

david: There's some good stuff in there.

Let's, you'll enjoy it. Thank you, John. We'll

john: stay in touch. Thank you so much.

david: Right on.

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